griefsense with Mimi Gonzalez

Jiggy Yoon on: becoming an orphan before 30, being Queer & Asian and challenging hustle culture

• Mimi Gonzalez • Season 2 • Episode 23

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what's up griefsense familia? Come chill with me and motivational speaker, mental health advocate, combat sports athlete, and mindset and performance coach Na Eun "Jiggy" Yoon as we explore the deep connections between grief, identity, and resilience. Today, Jiggy opens up about her role as a leading voice in the LGBTQ+ community and the youth mental health space, sharing insights from her personal healing and grieving journey.

Throughout the episode, Jiggy opens up about the painful loss of both her parents and how this profound grief influenced her life's path and her advocacy for youth mental health. We dive deep into the misconceptions surrounding hustle culture, emphasizing that true resilience often requires stepping back to embrace rest and self-compassion.

The conversation also touches on #griefsense—a nuanced awareness born from deep loss, which can transform our appreciation for life. We also reflect on the power of 'glimmers,' those small yet impactful moments of positivity that can light up our day. Have you heard of glimmers before? How does this show up in your life? 

Tune in to hear how Jiggy navigates the complexities of loss and identity, finding peace and purpose in authenticity and the legacy left behind by her parents. 

Follow & Connect with Jiggy: "where hustle & grind meet healing & grieving" 

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You're listening to season two of the grief sense podcast. I'm your host Mimi Gonzalez, AKA the Zillennial Griever. I am a creative entrepreneur, social impact strategist and community organizer based in Hartford, Connecticut. But most importantly, I am a griever, griefsense is really a safe space. space for creatives who are grievers. And I really created this space because it's something I wish I had. And sometimes you have to create the things that you wish existed. I am a serial griever where I've experienced significant loss, losing about 20 people before I turned 25 years old. And it was really hard to find community, people who look like me. in the death positive movement space. On the show, you'll mainly hear from Gen Z and millennial minoritized grievers, but you also have some advocates on the show who share our experience, but also want to amplify our voices and our stories. So what is griefsense? What, what does that even mean, right? It's not just some fancy name of a brand or the podcast, okay? It's actually a term that I've coined to name my experience. Sometimes the words that exist in our vernacular aren't really representative of our lived experience and so thus griefsense was born. So griefsense to me really is an inner sixth sense and intuition that's unlocked after experiencing physical loss and it inspires purpose through creative expression. Hence, grievers who are creatives. So, we do this in three ways. One, we embrace our mantra, which is we live life as a privilege. Two, we honor our ancestors and the legacies of our loved ones who have died and three, we not only normalize talking about grief and death and everything in between, but we really talk about the importance of planning for our death and talking about this in community with our families, what are our death care wishes, you know, and really normalizing that because that is not something that. We typically do in our very death phobic world. I hope that when you tune into these episodes that you feel super comfortable. I want you to think that you are in a living room, or in Spanish we say the sala, but the grief sala. And I hope that you're able to have Tea in your hand or a cafecito. So that way you're comfortable. I want you to feel like you're talking to your best friends or your primos or your cousins people who really understand you and get it. And if you are not a griever, and if you are here to learn and listen to the stories that are shared on the show, thank you so much for being here. Your voice is important too, because guess what? If you're not a griever now, unfortunately. You will be one day. And I'm hoping that the insights that you hear on the show will help you navigate that experience. One thing I wanted to also share, y'all, grief sense is always going to be lowercase because death, grief, all of that, it can be really scary. So these conversations is to really de stigmatize death and grief and really making sure it's like relatable, digestible, accessible. And yeah, it can be scary for sure, but let's do it together. Let's be in community together so with that, welcome to the movement. Welcome to La Familia and welcome to griefsense. Let's dive in.

Mimi Gonzalez:

Welcome back everybody. I miss you all. It's been a little while since I released an episode, but thank you for your patience We have another exciting episode because you know how we do on griefsense and I am so excited I have my friend Jiggy here with us today. We're gonna have a dope ass conversation I can't wait for you all to learn from her hear from her stories And I just thought it's gonna be dope and I love it So without further ado, Jiggy, please feel free to introduce yourself and then we'll jump right in

Jiggy Yoon:

Listen, I'm dead at this transition that you got like your voice before we started recording and as soon as you hit record, where is this like calm ASMR voice coming from? We're gonna break into your authentic self today. Show the people who you really are. Also, I really love that we're friends already. This is our first time talking but I love that you're introducing me as your friend.

Mimi Gonzalez:

We're locked in for life live, that's great.

Jiggy Yoon:

For sure. Uh, thank you so much for having me and introducing me to your community. I love, I love it here already. I'm here, here for the vibes and I love it here already. What's going on, everybody. My name is Jiggy. Uh, the real government name is Na Eun Yoon. She, her pronouns. I was born in Korea, built in Queens, New York, and doing the dang thing in California, eh, right now, period. Um, what else? I'm a motivational speaker. I am a youth mental health champion., um, I'm a mindset and performance coach for, uh, who are they? Combat sports athletes, but also corporate leaders as well. I have an apparel company called Vulnerability is Dope. Uh, and I have my own podcast called Shift Podcast, and it's a episode uploaded every single day. So. Yeah, get to know me and tune in

Mimi Gonzalez:

where do we find your podcast? How can we access

Jiggy Yoon:

Spotify and Apple podcast

Mimi Gonzalez:

all right, y'all. So you heard it. You heard it here first. So go subscribe and subscribe to griefsense that too. Um, wow. Well, as you can see, wow. I'm just so excited for our conversation. And I have to say, when I found you on Instagram, like I was like, what? Like I was literally just, you know, I'm like, this person needs to be in my life and I want to be their friend. And your content is so dope, like everything you put out is like super resonates with me and we have so much synergies. I'm just, all the things, Youth Mental Health Champion, Motivational Speaking, like Loss Hello, like there's just so many different Things of our identity that we like could bond over and maybe even trauma bond over, you know. We're here for maybe a little trauma bonding and some healing today. So, um, but yeah, I'm, I just think you're so dope. I love what you're doing. And I just want to, you know, Support you, amplify, whatever you're doing anytime I can. So you can always count on me for that.

Jiggy Yoon:

Thank you. Uh, yo, before you get started though, because you, you, you've given me mad flowers, I just want to take some time, uh, before we get started and dive into talking more about myself. I just want to give you your flowers and celebrate you because, uh, not to put your like personal life out there, but I saw that you were recently engaged. Yes, so let's celebrate that also 4, 000 downloads in such a such a short amount of time and that's amazing and Just I've said just like I've said through the DMS like you're an impressive impressive young woman Like I have never had anybody reach out to me. I've done podcast episodes Interviews, but I've never had somebody like the the little guide guest guidebook that you sent over like that was the most You Impressive and amazing and detailed oriented, like thing I have ever seen from. Like any one period, not just podcast, but because personally, I'm all about intentions and aligning of core values. And you made it so clear, um, something I'm a big fan of you already is your unapologetic attitude of setting your boundaries. And you already do that through this guidebook that you have, and you explain the language that you use, um, the things that you believe in, your core values, the thing, what the podcast is about, the things that you're going to talk about. It's just like, You set me up, you set me up for success. And that's what makes a really great host and somebody to just work with. And I can see a, I can see a world, I can see a world where we take this like beyond the podcast. I can't, I'm a big fan of you too. Like you, you're dope. Like I, and I don't say this about people often. Like, it's really hard to impress me. Cause I expect a lot. I expect a lot of excellence, but like, man, that blew me away. So flowers to you. Yeah. And also the synergy part. Like. When you reached out and I saw the podcast page on Instagram, I saw your personal page and I was like, Oh yeah, for sure. We're aligning in a lot of ways. And when I added you on LinkedIn, it was like psychology, this and advocate that and ally this and like I personally really. I don't know if straight people think this way, but like, I personally really love it when I saw that you're also an advocate for like, the LGBTQ community and everything that you studied in college and things like that, and I was like, oh, ooh, she, she, mm, yeah, when you say that we're about to be friends forever, it's like, yeah, I'm down, let's make each other friendship bracelets, like, let's go, I'm ready, I'm in it, I'm in it.

Mimi Gonzalez:

Oh my, wow. I was not expecting that whatsoever. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I gladly received that. And I'm also working on accepting compliments. I feel like it's a hard thing throughout my life just because like, I'm sure you can probably relate to just like being hard and having like the outer shell and like not showing weakness. But like, as I get older, I'm learning like there's power and vulnerability. There's power in crying. There's power in expressing ourselves. And I'm There's power in accepting your flowers. So thank you so much for that. I will not negate anything because that's what my default would be. Right. You

Jiggy Yoon:

just got to slow down, pause and say thank you and accept it.

Mimi Gonzalez:

Absolutely. Um, and then yes, to your point about being an ally. Um, I actually even hate the word ally. I'm going to be honest with you because it just gives. I don't know, I just, it has like that slacktivism vibe to it, you know, like whenever someone's like, oh, I'm a self proclaimed ally, like, yes, it's great if you want to support, but like, just advocate for me, support me, amplify me, co build with me, right, like, those are kind of things I always say instead, and, um, in college, yeah, I studied, um, psychology and gender studies, and that really is because when I was, started with grief, which we're gonna talk about today, but, um, when I was 16, my godfather took his life and he, he was gay and like, I just saw the impact and like how the family treated him differently and, you know, and he was like my, one of my first introductions to this life. Like he always made things so much fun and was so out and proud and he didn't give a f*** what anybody had to say, you know, and like, that was my first, like, exposure to the LGBT community and how beautiful and powerful all of you are, all of us are, and I just, that was the message I had to keep going forward, right? And after he died, it was even more so, you know, so for even saying that and noticing that. And yeah. And yeah. Yeah, oh my god, I'm just, okay. Um, we like to kick off every griefsense episode with, you know, who we want to honor today. And to your point about intention setting, that is very, very, very, very important to me. Um, and that is really because, you know, we go about our daily lives. You know, do the day to day, do the routine, go to work, do what we have to do. But when do we ever make time to honor our dead or honor people who have died? When do we make time to say their names? When do we make time to share memories? When do we make time to remind other people to do the same? And that's really what this whole podcast is about is like making that intentional time. Um, because when else would you do it, you know, and instead of just death anniversaries and birthdays, like this needs to be a more regular practice. I mean, at least that's just for me. I want to inspire people to make it a more regular practice because usually after most times when we lose somebody, we don't want to talk about it. We don't want to think about it. We don't even, you know. So yeah, that's really why we do that. And then yeah, I'd like to kind of go into your story and who you are and your grief story. So who are we calling into our space today?

Jiggy Yoon:

Yeah, thank you for the invitation. Um, I am constantly connecting to both of my parents, my mom and dad, they have both passed on. Um, and I feel pulled to also call in my grandparents as well. Um, So yeah, that's that's names My mom's name. Thank you for asking yo people never have asked me that what the People have never asked me that what the heck now that I think about it. I'm mad at my all of my friends. All right um My mom's name is e hyunsoon and her catholic name was stella. So I have this tattoo on me that says stella on it my dad's name is yoo hyung yoon

Mimi Gonzalez:

and your grandparent.

Jiggy Yoon:

I don't actually know their names You

Mimi Gonzalez:

That's okay, you know?

Jiggy Yoon:

Yeah, I just like always call them grandma, grandpa in Korean. You know

Mimi Gonzalez:

what's hilarious? I just recently learned, so I'll probably say this at some point later in the podcast, but my biological father's family just came into my life recently, like literally as of two months ago. Crazy. And, um, My grandfather, I was like, what are your parents names? Abuelo, I don't even know. Like, I just met you not too long ago. What are your parents names? And I just learned their names. And apparently my great grandparents names were Carmen and Cruz Gonzalez.

Jiggy Yoon:

Mmm. So

Mimi Gonzalez:

cool. But anyway, well, hey, I guess we're calling them into the space with us today too, um, but thank you, um, for saying their names and I can't wait to learn more about them and their impact on you. Um, so with that, you know, As much or as little you want to share, what is your grief story? Like what has been this impact of losing both your parents? I can only imagine being a young person and being an orphan and then being in this country, being from another country, being queer, like there's just so many layers to your identity. I just, yeah. Oh my goodness. Where should we start?

Jiggy Yoon:

I don't know. Let's, let's try it. Um, I'll start with my mom. She's the one who passed away first. Um, so my mom, she, uh, she passed away from cancer back in 2013. I was a junior in college and um, I think what's important before even talking about that is like setting the stage as to what was going on in my life at that point. Um, when I was 17 years old, right after I graduated from high school, uh, senior year of high school, there was a brief moment when I lived alone, completely alone at 17 years old in Queens, New York, and my mom had moved to Atlanta, and I found out that She had a heart attack, and so she had to get an emergency surgery, and she survived it, thankfully. So when she came back to New York, I was like, oh, word. Like, I know how to take care of myself because I learned how to cook for myself and do my own laundry and things like that and clean while I was living alone, so maybe this is my chance to take care of my mom, um, as she comes back. But only two weeks or so after she came back, there was a five alarm fire in my apartment building, and a five alarm fire means that it takes at least five fire trucks to put out the fire. And it was at, like, the rooftop of the apartment building. This guy was doing something he wasn't supposed to do, and his actions led to the entire apartment building burning down. And so, within a matter of one hour, I became, I don't like to use the term homeless. Per se, but I, yeah, I was without a home within one hour. Everything that we had loved, everything that we had worked really hard for, and if you have immigrant parents, you know how hard they work to get, get, get everything that they have, and all of that, you know, was gone within one hour, and not only the materialistic things and the memories, but it's also a place to call home that was taken away. Um, and that was like right after graduating high school and right before going away for college. So I was in Queens, New York. I went to college in Pennsylvania, Penn State, and um, I made a joke out of it, you know, like you go through trauma, you make a joke out of it. I don't know. So I was like, yo, like losing everything to fire made the packing easier and moving into a dorm room simpler, you know? But at the time, I didn't understand that what I had experienced trauma and loss, so I didn't know that there was a proper grieving process one must go through, a healing process, see a therapist or not, whatever it is, like, I didn't know any of that, I didn't know what help I needed, I didn't know what help to ask for, and where to go to even find it. So, I operated as if As if life was normal, and I think that sometimes when people are grieving, because society and the world doesn't talk about grieving enough, and we live in a high performing world, we think that we need to continue operating in the same way as if nothing freaking happened. So at the time, at the time, you know, oh I lost my home to fire. All right, well I've been through a lot of my life already like this is just another day. And, um, but you know I noticed that I'm getting. More and more irritated. I'm going off to college and having difficulty making friends, and I'm snapping at them already, my poor friends. Um, they're so compassionate and understanding, but, yeah, I was a b*** back in the day, but like, yeah, I was snapping, I was irritable, I was angry. Um, you know, just all of the little symptoms of grieving and trauma. Um, and then while I was going through that process, I was then diagnosed with my chronic illness. Um, in which I had to navigate that alone. My mom, like, yelled at me on the phone, like, what are you doing in college being so irresponsible with your health? I'm like, I'm in the doctor's office getting diagnosed with a chronic illness and you're yelling at me. So that was my first time ever going to the ER and that was my first time ever spending a night in the hospital and I did that alone and with one friend. So then I'm going through that now. It's just like being diagnosed with a chronic illness is, again, grieving because it's a completely new life where Every day for me is life or death. Like, if I really wanted to, I can just not take care of my health and just like end up in the emergency room tonight. And so then that I was going through that. But again, I didn't think that this was something that I need to process and heal through. It was just another day. Like, I just need to, you know, persevere and get through it and just get used to the new norm. And shortly after that, then my mom was diagnosed with cancer. And um, that I learned that news. Accidentally, it slipped out of my aunt's mouth. No one intentionally told me about my mom getting cancer. So I learned that. For a short moment, we were told that her cancer went away. And then it came back my junior year. And so during that time, I was still just like my dorm rooms became my new home. Like I became a nomad at this point because I lost my home to fire. Um, so like I used, I would live in strangers. Basements with no windows, um, grocery shopping at the dollar store, just a kid trying to make it out of New York, you know? Um, my mom was still recovering, still sick, especially when she was rediagnosed and I would help her walk to the hospital and things like that to get to get checkups but one moment when I'm back in school, the new semester starts and I'm back in school and we had a really toxic relationship. We used to have a really, really toxic relationship, but It was starting to heal and that was when she was diagnosed back. She was back in the hospital worse, worse condition than ever. And then she passed away in a couple of months. So I went back home to New York in thanks for Thanksgiving break. That's when I found out she was back in the hospital. I thought it was strange because my. Dad, out of nowhere, was back from Korea. My brother was in town from Michigan. I was like, something's up because nobody's told me anything because I'm the baby of the family. So like, I go to New York for Thanksgiving break and my brother's like, you know, mom's back in the hospital. She's not going to look the same. She's not going to look the same as you remember her to look. So just don't be. Shocked or surprised, you know? And then, um, all of, you know, all of November through Thanksgiving spent it every single day at the hospital. Go back for a Christmas break spent at every single day at the hospital. New Year's spent it at the hospital. And I remember Just at one point, I remember at one point I was talking to my friend because I couldn't sleep. I don't know if any of y'all grieving like you couldn't sleep at one point, but I couldn't sleep. And I remember staying up with a friend and we were talking and I was like, I don't know what I'm going back to the hospital every single day for. I was at a point where I was like, are we going there in hopes that she make it or are we there waiting for her to die? And that was my honest truth at that time. Um, I was hurt. I was confused. I didn't know. It's not like they gave us a timeline. They didn't ever tell us like, Oh, your mom has a month left. Like that no one says stuff like that. So I don't know. But the thing is that when we were at the hospital every single day, I had my back turned to my mom and I was on the laptop doing work. Because I was also, like, president of my organization, I was a TA, I was the student manager for work, like, I had a lot going on. And the one thing that my mom always told me was perseverance and work ethic. That's what she taught me. And so I was simply, in my head, I was simply doing what I was taught to do. In my head, that's how I was honoring my mother. But at the same time, when she had passed, it's like, of course, I wish that I would have known to Face my mom, have some conversations, watch kdramas with her on the iPad, as my brother was doing with her, but no, I had my back turned to her the entire time and I was just doing work. One of the last things that I told my mom was that I got into the Dean's List. Um, and she was like, Good, like you're supposed to be on the D's list like, you know, Asian families It's just like you're supposed to be really good at school And I don't know it was always about school and academics for us And so that was one of the things but when she had passed my best friend told me that the miracle wouldn't have been that she survived the miracle already happened in that you two were able to rekindle your relationship and She was absolutely right. Like my best friend knows me so well Um But yeah, because I cannot imagine if my mother had passed away with our relationship still being as toxic as it was. So, yes, like, I, I, I used to ask why a lot, like, why we are finally really connecting and deepening our relationship. We're finally healing our relationship. Why now she gotta pass away, you know, um, I feel like I barely knew my mom I feel like I barely have memories of us like having a good time and I I asked why a lot um, and that was like so that happened in while I was in college and Again, I didn't know what trauma or loss or grieving was I didn't know what help I needed Mental health was not a hot topic like it is now back then like social media didn't Barely existed. Um, Instagram was barely getting started. So, really showing my age here right now, but like it wasn't.

Mimi Gonzalez:

Come on, you're so young.

Jiggy Yoon:

So, the only reason how I found out that my school had mental health resources is because I went to the student, um, medical center to pick up my Meds for my chronic illness and I was in the water fountain at the water fountain And I look up and there was a poster right there like a flyer right there on the wall And it was like hey, are you did somebody pass away recently? Like are you feeling XYZ? Are you feeling a you? Do you want somebody to talk about it? Like, did you know that as a student, you get like five free counseling sessions? I was like, no, I didn't freaking know that. Like, how was I supposed to know that? No one told me that. So I was like, I mean, sure. Fine. I guess, like, I guess I want to talk to somebody about it. I didn't even really talk to my friends about it. I was just, again, irritable, crying out of nowhere, angry, just going through the emotions, but I didn't know what exactly it was I was going through. So I said, fine, let me try this out. So I went to like three or four therapy sessions, and at the same time, I just felt as though it wasn't for me. It just wasn't really, I don't, I, at the time, I didn't know what it was supposed to do, you know, but I, I don't know. It just wasn't working for me. So I just stopped. I just stopped going. I thanked her for her time and I just stopped going. And I said, maybe this is just a journey that I want to go on on my own for now. Um, that whole journey was how I found out about like the power of vulnerability, healing, storytelling. I still wasn't familiar with the language of mental health and grieving and that there are like stages to grieving. I didn't know any of that. But all I knew was that whatever it took for me to just stop. Wake up in the morning and see another day. It was like survival mode. Yeah, that's how that journey was. But at the same time, like, I, I did. Drink quite heavily at that point. I was blacking out at almost every party that I went to. And sure, fine, like, Penn State was like party school, you know? And you just make excuses. It's like, oh, I go to the nation's number one party school. And yeah, it's Penn State. I used to say this. I was like, I'm not an alcoholic. I went to Penn State. I used to say that. Um, and we used to like laugh about it, you know? But no, that was definitely like looking back. It's like, it was, it was. Something for me to just cope through because I didn't know what what else to do.

Mimi Gonzalez:

I just I I just have to do this. Can we do you mind? Can we take a deep breath together? Yeah Hold space honor your mom and everything you just said So usually what I like to do on the show, you know, breathe in for four we hold for four exhale Come on box breathing. Yeah Let's breathe in Hold Wow You, I mean, and we still have to talk about your dad too, um, but I just want to honor everything that you said because there are so many levels of grief that you have experienced throughout your life. And I often say this to folks too, that when you lose one person, like talking about the more like physical loss, like losing somebody, cause obviously, you know, like you mentioned, there's. There's home loss, there's job loss, there's relationship loss, but death loss specifically comes with so many other levels and layers of grief, but with that you have to find your identity over. And over and over again. And I, I definitely have this, this is what I call grief sense, honestly. It's like just this innate ability to, I don't want to say persevere, but it's like that resilient energy, but you're doing it in a way where you're like, Um, healing and not just like what you mentioned, we're colonized essentially to grow up and to just work, work, work, work, work, and never take that time to heal and to take a, just take a break, take a pause, like slow the fuck down. You know, like we're not taught to do those things, but throughout your life, I can only imagine how many times you had to reinvent yourself, um, because of all the different layers of grief. One. And then two, shout out to your friends. Um, for real holding it down for you. And I really wanted to say that, and I picked that up because I share that similarly, like throughout my life there's a lot of loss that I've experienced too much, to be honest. And I just always felt like my friends. were the ones that held me down. Yes. Um, and there were a lot of friends who didn't really understand the grief or the pain associated with grief, so it's not like they really had the right language or tools to support me, but just their time, and just being there with me, and crying with me, and not knowing what the fuck we're crying about, but they're there, and like, That is just, I just want to shout out to your friends and thank you for supporting Jiggy because that is, and we need more friends like that. Um, and then also to your point about just not having the language to name what the hell you're going through, like that is so real and that is so deep. And it's like, I just really needed to acknowledge those things because to see who you are today is literally like, I don't want to get emotional, but it's just like, Amazing that you're here today and that you're alive and like you said with your chronic illness, like it could literally be life or death every single day and the fact that you choose to wake up every day and you're not giving up and you're honoring your parents and you're doing the damn thing and you're so cool and you're, you're like using your, your pain to like, as fuel. To inspire other people going through similar challenges. And that's what it's all about. And that's why I love what you're doing. And I'm going to stop talking now because I'm just like word vomit, but yeah, that was, I just had to say all that.

Jiggy Yoon:

Yo, I love it here. I feel at home here. This is dope. I, yo, something I say about people grieving is like those who are grieving a loss, like the death of somebody, we have this unspoken understanding. Like we don't need to say it. Yeah. We don't need to say it. We don't need to explain it. We don't, you just. You just know, you know, and like you just know the intention and the heart of the other person that when they are saying something, you know, like if you know, you know, like, you know, you connect in like, and it just hits differently. Um, yeah, I love this. Thank you so much. Yeah. And shout out to my friends for real, for real. Like, oh my gosh, they've been through so much with me. For me, because of me, shoutouts to the friends who, shoutouts to the friends who walked me back home safe to my dorm room when I was blacked out, making sure that I was eating something when I, on the, on the frickin dorm hallway, eating, sitting down on the floor, just eating my, also shoutouts to my, my, uh, college roommate. I love her so much, and we still talk to this day, but I'm just like, yo, when my mom passed, you, as a roommate? You navigated that. Very well, like I, I didn't even get to thank her until just a few years ago, um, just looking back and reflecting a lot. I'm like, yo, my college roommate means so much to me, but it's not even that she just like, said the right things because we actually never talked about it. We never acknowledged it. Like, I still remember when I, when I walked in through the door, like after, after winter break, We're back in the dorm room. She was already in there. She knows my mom died while we were gone. And I walk in and she was just looking at me. She's like, Hey, like, Hey, that was it. And you know, sometimes like people just, sometimes to me, I don't know about anybody else, less is more to me. And like when my dad passed my therapist, I told my therapist and my therapist was like, Jiggy, I'm so sorry. That's all I needed. A bitch don't need much. Um, I love when, when it's those perfect moments. But yeah, I'm really grateful for my friends. I'm really grateful for my college roommate. Um, talking about perseverance, you know, like when I mentioned that after my mom passed is when I started to, started my healing journey as well as get to know more about what vulnerability really means. When my mom died, I, I also really love that in this space, we can just say that somebody died. Like, we don't have to say, oh, they passed away. They, they were called home. It's like, no, they died and it sucks. And we, we get that. So we can just say that. We can just say that. When my mom died, I started to question everything because she was the one who instilled in me the importance of work ethic, perseverance, go through it no matter what, like no matter what you show up, no matter what you're going through. Oh, I'm, well, if mom's in the hospital and she's probably dying, still do your work. Like do it no matter what, no matter what, no matter what. But everything started to change when I was like, yo, the hardest worker I have ever known died from cancer. Hello? I'm gonna question everything because she was preaching all of my life, the importance of hard work and yet that same thing is what took her away because what causes cancer. So I started to question everything and along the way as I'm and it was because of this one course that I took in college that really introduced me to um, Self awareness, emotional intelligence, meditation, journaling, like Brene Brown, vulnerability. I had to study Brene Brown in college. This was before she was popping off, like this was, this was when her TED talk only had a couple thousand views, not like a million. And so I had to study her work and that's how I learned about the word vulnerability. And the more I studied it, the more I learned that everything I was told about vulnerability was a lie. Vulnerability is not weakness. Being emotional is certainly not weakness. Vulnerability doesn't only mean just like crying. It can also mean just stepping into the unknown. Because that's a vulnerable experience. I think the misconception is that vulnerability is when you're crying, when you're sensitive, when you're whatever. But I don't even believe That being sensitive is bad, like, being sensitive by definition is that you have a high sense of other people's emotions. That's amazing, that's a gift. Vulnerability, every time you step into the unknown, I, I, I am a combat sports athlete, like, every time I step in the ring, every time I step on the mats, every time I get on stage to speak, like, every time you start the recording button, that's vulnerability. And this is powerful. Greatness cannot happen without vulnerability. So what the freak are you talking about vulnerability is weakness? And this is my conclusion that those who preach that vulnerability is weakness, they're the ones who are weak. They are the ones who are not courageous. And I'm specifically shouting this out to the hustle culture, the social media motivational motherfuckers. Those who Help me have a living because I speak against them and I'm able to speak about mental health, but at the same time you make my work, ooh, everything that I do for the world and their mental health, you take it away from me. But anyhow, um, when they say like, you know, I was in that world of hustle culture. I was in that world of grind, grind, hustle, hustle, no matter what perseverance, resilience, like do, do whatever it takes. You gotta want it badly enough. Being self made. Lone wolf. Don't ever ask for help because that's weakness too. Like, oh, oh, your mom died. Like, they used to preach about how like, oh, whoever dies, you still go do the work that you're supposed to do. And I, there is some truth to that, but that's not the only way. And when you talk about, you know, a certain level of perseverance, how come All this time, I was told that perseverance is about resilience and showing up no matter what, but it turns out that through a psychological research, it turns out that self compassion is one of the most powerful tools of resilience available to us, and ain't nobody talking about it. I am now. I am now because I know and that's what I speak about, but how come nobody said that? And so like, every our bodies Let's give honor and respect to our bodies and our brains, because our brains, our bodies know what we need. When we're tired, rest? Oh my gosh, rest is also a tool. It's also a super power. It increases creativity, focus, and energy. Like, what are you talking about? Rest is able to contribute to high focus, energy, high performance in general, basically. Productivity, focus, creativity, all of those things. And nowadays, people can't even walk away from their desk just to have lunch. Like, that's a, that's a problem. Are we not recognizing that as a problem? But at the same time, it's like, exhaustion is a medal, and that's what is applauded. But how about rest? And like, at the end of the day, when, you know, when my mom passed away, I learned a lot from my mom passing away to set me up for when my dad passed away. But when my mom passed away, you know, like, of course, I was tired. Of course, I wanted to just stay in bed. But hustle culture told me that I gotta go through it no matter what. But if I had just listened to my body, And given it, like, taking time off of school wasn't even an option. It's not even something that we even thought about. When I went to back to school, I went back to school the same day as my mom's funeral. Like, I went to my mom's funeral, we had lunch, then I got on the megabus, and I went back to Penn State. And then the next day, I would go to all my classes and my professors would be like, I can't believe that you're here. And I'd be like, why? What's wrong? To me, going back to school and graduating on time was me honoring my mom. Because that's what she told me. That's what she taught me. And I'm not, I don't regret it. Like, I'm not gonna regret that. But looking back, I'm like, man, that was sad. What a sad way to live. That I can't even listen to my own body, like, give my body whatever it needs. And I was just in survival mode for so long.

Mimi Gonzalez:

I just have to, yes, abso freaking lutely all of that, all of that. And I resonate so deeply, it's wild. Because my mom, who thankfully, you know, she's still here, but she's literally the epitome of grind culture. And you know what she calls it? She calls it her organized chaos and I understand that and I love her and I support her wholeheartedly But it also breaks my heart. It breaks my heart too, you know, but because of all the trauma that she's been through That's how she copes through life and she's grown so much but it's also like there's so many people who are still living in survival mode even after all of these tools and time and Growth that has passed and still are not paying attention to what their body needs and those signals, right? Like literally Illnesses and diseases. Yes, some things that manifest in our life is because we're ignoring What our body is telling us. I mean, obviously some things are innately gonna happen because of genes or whatever But a lot of it is also stress induced and things that we're neglecting from our health For me, it's so sad because losing one parent my biological father, you know It's like I want my mom to take care of herself so much so that we don't have to deal with that But like I know that Death and more loss is going to come regardless. But to your point, when you were talking about just hustle culture, right? And I feel like same thing, Caribbean or Latino, Afro Latino culture too. Like we wear, well, I'm not going to say we, cause I am not in that we anymore, but the culture, I guess, wears resilience as a badge of honor. And I always tried to unpack that. And it's just like, why, why, like, why are we applauded for how many things we can take? Why are we applauded for all of the hurdles and obstacles we have to overcome? Why? Why aren't we celebrated for just being? Why aren't we celebrated for just the mediocre things we do, for being humans? Humans just having a natural human lived experience. Experience. Why do you have to achieve the highest amount of achievements in order to show that you're worthy? Why? Because we know why. White supremacy and oppression, all of the things, of course we know this, but it's like it's so ingrained in our brains and in our cultures that it's like a lot of adulting, to your point, is like unlearning everything because everything we learn is a freaking lie. And so now I always challenge my mom like, Mom, I love you. You're grinding, you're grinding, you're grinding. And I still have that mode in my, my life too, because my mom raised me. I have that innate hustle culture within me, but whenever it comes up, I'm like, What does my body need? To your point? I need to rest. What do I need to do? Um, I need to cancel meetings. That's good. I like, literally, I left work earlier this week because I, I literally just couldn't, I was like, I am going through a lot. My body is telling me I can't be here right now and I need to go. And the biggest time this happened in my life, I actually quit my corporate job at the end of 2022 because a lot of things were manifesting physically in my body, the stress. panic attacks. Like I had the worst panic attack of my life and a lot of it of course was associated with grief. And I was just like, dude, like, this is not the life I want. I want time for myself. I, to your point earlier, I want time to be creative. I, how can I be creative if my mind is not rested? If it's always on go, dude, I was a chief of staff. I was working 14 hour days, most days. Like it just wasn't sustainable. It wasn't healthy. And imagine. So many people like, you know, what we're talking about, so many people are still in this grind mode where they can't think for themselves because they're constantly thinking for working for another person or they can't support their families or can't support themselves. And it's just like, I don't want that to be my life. Like, I want to be present. And like, so many people died in my life before I had the opportunity to be present with them. And I can't turn back the hands of time, but what I can do is make that intentional effort going forward that the people who are alive in my life, I am going to go all out for their birthdays. I'm going to send them a text randomly just to let them know I'm thinking about them. I am going to go the extra mile to know that my people are loved, that they're appreciated, and I'm going to do the same for myself. I love the shit out of myself. I love, you know, and like doing the things I want to do and all of that. And I'm, I feel like I'm talking a lot, but it's to your point. Yes, we cannot keep wearing resilience, perseverance as a badge of honor. It's a good skill to have, right? To the ability to in the grief world, having that resilience, like already gone through a lot of loss, the both of us, it is a huge skill to be able to bounce back. That is not easy to do. And I think when you experience one loss, it kind of prepares you for future losses you're going to experience, even though each loss is going to be different. But imagine if you never experienced loss, and then the first time you experienced loss, you know, it was, it overturned your whole world. But then when you have upbringings like us, Keep going, keep going, keep going. And then guess what? The older you get is now when the grief is going to manifest because you didn't deal with it when you were younger. We didn't have the language or the tools to deal with it. And now we have these reminders or triggers or smells or foods or memories that come up and it just like, I can't do shit today because my grief just want to be griefy and hit me with a brick wall.

Jiggy Yoon:

Could the grief be griefy?

Mimi Gonzalez:

So it's like, I feel that. And it's. It's not going to stop though. That's the thing. Grief is one of those things. It's like an endless, endless thing, but you learn to integrate with it, right? And so look at where you are today. Everything you have accomplished, you know, for your career and, and, but your health and your mind. That to me is so impressive that a lot of people, you know, they're still stuck in that, that hustle culture. So I think the work you're doing is amazing. Incredible. Incredible. Thank

Jiggy Yoon:

you. Man, I'm smiling so big right now because, like, not because I'm happy for you that you went through what you went through. I'm not happy about that for you, but I'm just, like, feeling so connected to you and seeing so much of myself and everything that you shared. Um, again, I don't think I've ever, like, talked to somebody, you know, In this way, who just, like, freaking gets it and there's a space to share. Um, yeah, like, having a high pain tolerance is not the, it's not the flex that you think it is, you know? And I think that growing up, especially with immigrant parents, that is their survival mode. That's their way of living it because they're conditioned that way because that's what they had to do to survive where they were at. And to make it over here and then to survive the world here and then to raise us. And I think that, you know, their own journey is their own journey. And I cannot take away, who am I to be like, Mom, stress less. Here's a magic wand and stress less. Like, I don't blame my mom. For the way that she went about things. Um, did it create a lot of conflict in our relationship? Absolutely. She was a highly, highly, highly, highly stressed woman. She was a very, very anxious woman. She was the queen of just in case, like her purse was like brick thick, like heavy, like always, always had a full dictionary in her purse to look up words and stuff like that. Um, but at the same time, like I was going to talk about this later, but I'll just talk about it right now. It's that. I learned so much from my mom's parenting when she was alive compared to when she is parenting me after she has passed on, because I still believe that she is with me every day. And, um, what I've been learning is that, you know, the same voice who used to yell at me and say, you need to be doing more and more and more and nothing is enough. And you got to do this and that, and you got to do it more and more and more. And when I do something good, it's like, of course you did well, like you're expected to do well. That same voice. Is no longer saying those things. That same voice is now telling me, girl, I wish you would relax. I wish you would rest, you know, be easy on yourself. Go easy on yourself. Have grace and self compassion for yourself. It's okay to rest. It's okay if you don't have to do a million things at once. It's okay. And I'm learning that parenting is different when they're in a space of peace and immigrant parents don't have that. Immigrant parents do not have what peace, what rest. They were constantly in survival mode for years and years before we were even born. Well, I mean, I'm an immigrant myself. I moved from Korea, but even so, like what peace and what time to rest, you know, they, they always had a survival mode mindset. To keep going so that we can have, you know, freaking land of opportunities, you know, and you know what I learned as an immigrant is that America is really good at marketing itself.

Mimi Gonzalez:

It's the American nightmare, not the American dream.

Jiggy Yoon:

Yo, you know, countries outside of you go to Korea, like they love America. America is the standard. It's like, oh my god, you see everything on TV, like, it's great, it's perfect, they are high achievers, da da da da da. But, like, no, Korea's technology is actually one of the most leading technologies in the entire world. But they don't know that, they don't see the level of, the rate of homelessness here. They don't see how the veterans are treated here. They only see the, the army, you know, the military, like, going proud for the country. But they don't see how they treat veterans. They don't see how they are in the streets with their mental health and addicted to drugs. Like, they don't see that part outside of America. America does a very good job at marketing with the whole, like, land of opportunity, whatever, whatever. But one

Mimi Gonzalez:

thing they could do good at, I'll give America. Traumatizing us.

Jiggy Yoon:

Yes. Um, but yeah, that's just what I've learned as my parents have gone on. And

Mimi Gonzalez:

What about your dad? Let's talk about your dad.

Jiggy Yoon:

Let's talk about my dad as we're running out of time, but we can stay longer, much longer. Um, So. My dad passed away. It, it actually took me to transition from my mom passing away to my dad passing away. Um.

Mimi Gonzalez:

And what was the timeline like?

Jiggy Yoon:

Yeah, so my mom passed away in 2013, and my dad passed away in 2022. So, in 2013, my mom had passed away right before I turned 21, and my dad passed away right before I turned 30. Wow. So, these, like, big deal age differences. You know, transitions. Yeah, um, they, they weren't alive physically for that. Um, but after my mom passed away as I'm going through this healing journey like I still hadn't really gone through like traditional therapy until 2020 when the pandemic hit. And you know what, like, this is why I emphasize so much about youth mental health and grieving in my work, because yo, you going through something, face it head on right now. Because it's gonna bite you in the ass later, so do it right now, start right now, if you can, if you have the access and the resources to. And going back to what you said about having a panic attack a couple of years ago, yo, at 24 years old, I had a panic attack. I was getting ready for work and I had a panic attack. At 24 years old, we having panic attacks now?

Mimi Gonzalez:

That's when I was 24 too, that's crazy. Right! Literally. That's

Jiggy Yoon:

crazy. And, you know, 24 is also around the time when our brains stop developing. So when we go through trauma before that, it's like, it's just now, my therapist would say it's year, you're back to age zero, year zero, once it's done developing. So like, throughout that time, I'm still It's taken me so long to finally recognize the triggers, you know, I don't believe that grieving ever really stops, so I don't give myself a deadline to get over it, um, but I was still very like highly sensitive to topics related to my mom, um, and then 2022, um, my dad just passed away. Passed away, so

Mimi Gonzalez:

it was like

Jiggy Yoon:

My dad was in Korea the entire time I've been in America, so I would visit like Korea twice, I think And then he used to visit for holidays every year, but once he started to get older Uh, he couldn't, you know, make it and my brother and I were like talking about going to Korea and my my brother Um due to the army and things like that Like he wasn't able to make it to korea for like 14 15 years and we had planned on going back but It's as if our dad like kind of like beat us to it basically but like, you know,

Mimi Gonzalez:

dark

Jiggy Yoon:

humor, dark humor, but like, he passed away and how he had a heart attack, but it wasn't really the heart attack that yes and no killed him. It's like in Korea at the in 2022 COVID was still really bad. That was around the time when Omarion was around. And in Korea, it was like really, really bad. And so, um, He had the heart attack. He was able to get an ambulance and he was in the ambulance, but the first hospital rejected him because they were full. And so on the way to the second hospital, he passed away in the ambulance. So that's how he passed. And he had had a heart attack the year prior. Um, but he was on medicine and he, once he got on medicine, it really looked like he could live another 10 years. He was about 74, 75 at the time. And it really looked like he Man, a brand new face, and we thought we'd have more time with him, um, but one day, yeah, my brother called me, and he was like, I also want to honor my brother, because he's like, the first oldest son, and he's the one translating for my mom, he's the one leading the family while my dad's in Korea, like, He's always the one breaking the news for me like shoutouts to my brother. Um, but he called and he was like, huh? Yongjae or he's called himself Chris now because he has this American citizenship. I don't but um, so He calls me and he says hey dad passed away And I was like, what? And I was like, processing, processing. And I was like, wait, what? I was like, I spoke to him like two days ago. Wait, what? He looked fine. Like, I was like, what, what? And I'm like, I broke down. I was like, what are you talking about? I started going crazy. I started crying. I was like, uncontrollably crying. Man, that, that like, And I was going through a really hard breakup at the time, too, and just grieving all of these things combined at the same time was a weird adventure, um, and as I was processing my dad dying, I was like, oh my god, I don't have parents anymore. Like, I am without my parents before I turn 30. Like, who the freak has to say that? Like, both of my parents? And so I was like grieving that even more than like, yes, I was grieving my dad, but like, the fact that I didn't have parents anymore, just like, really, oh my god, it was, yeah, um, so we had gone to, Um, figuring out the paperwork to get through, like, COVID restrictions and not having to quarantine, um, because they had, like, quarantine things set up in Korea. Um, but if you have, like, a funeral or something like that, they're able to let you skip it, skip the quarantine. I had to, like, stay in a hotel for, like, 12 hours, though. Um. But then from there, I went straight to the funeral. I'm seeing my uncles and aunts that I haven't seen in years, and like, I remember just like my body freezing before, um, I got to, I got to the place where the funeral was. My brother was already there. He landed in Korea ahead of me. He was already there. Um, and like, I'm just like, from the outside looking in. And, um, In Korea, funerals are like in one, one building. If they choose to go this route, it could be just like one building and there are rooms set up and each, you know, the families are in there and their pictures are up and they're set up and there's an altar. You go to bow at the altar. So before I enter the room, I'm just like looking in and I see my cousins that I haven't seen in years and I just start breaking down. And then I see my aunt who, in Korea, who like basically, she practically raised me in Korea. Um, and I see her and every time I see her, I start, I start crying and I just start breaking down and they had to like drag me into the room where my dad's, you know, altar was and, um, I bow twice and then I go shake my uncle's hands and I shake my brother's hand and that's how the funeral service goes in Korea. Um, It's like a Buddhist tradition, I think. We're not Buddhists, I'm Christian. But anyways, um, we go through that and the funeral's multiple days. So we do, I do my bowing and then they say, let's go, you know, eat some food. So my aunt brings me food and then she was like, after you're done, we're going to go see your dad. And I was like, what are you talking about? Like, I just, I just bowed to him. What are you talking about? Go see my dad. So I didn't know that they were holding the body. They were waiting for me and my brother to land in Korea. So the funeral had already been going on for two or three days before we landed. So once we got there, before they cremated, they want us to say goodbye to the body. I was like, what do you mean go see dad? So the body was downstairs. So we all go downstairs and I see my dad's body like wrapped up before it goes into the cremation thing. And, uh, I freeze again before I entered the room. I, I, like, stopped walking. Everybody was walking past me, going into the room, and I just stopped walking. And my sister in law had to, like, grab my hand, hold me, and just, like, she was, like, let's go inside. And, um, that was, like, my first time seeing my brother break down like that. And, you know, my brother is, like, such a strong dude. Um, he's seven years older than me and he's always had to carry the family basically, and I have never seen him break down. I've like, honestly, never seen him cry. So, um, to see, like, my older brother, my protector, my leader, like, just, like, break down like that, I'm like, oh my gosh, like, he, he said his last few words to dad, and I was like, oh my gosh, like, they didn't have the best relationship either, but I could, I could hear the longing for further connection, more time together. Um. And me, like, I'd never wanted to, I'd never liked to accept it, but I was like daddy's little girl, like my dad always treated me like daddy's little princess, um, so to have that, you know, gone, um, yeah, that was a whole thing. And then so,

Mimi Gonzalez:

yeah,

Jiggy Yoon:

and which is like, you know, time passes so fast. Like it literally both my parents passing away each do feel like it happened yesterday. Like it's just so fresh um, and I ended up having to stay in korea for Like almost two months at that time. I went to korea. I went back to korea twice that year and um for months at a time to figure out like Paperwork, money, somebody owes somebody money, we had to chase down this woman for money back, like, all these secrets started to come out, it's like, what's going on? Um, but the part that I want to get at there is that I actually learned more about my parents after they have passed, because of the things that we have found when we were cleaning out my dad's apartment. And, um, my dad was a journalist when I was growing up, and he loves taking notes, he loves writing, and I found this stac I also learned that he's a hoarder, but he's a he has this stack of journals and notebooks, and it turned out to be like his diary, and he just wrote everything, like there was this one journal entry from like 2001 and like 2005 and it was like, I guess he was visiting, visiting us in America and it was like, oh, our family went to this place called TGI Fridays today. Like, oh, I remember that dinner. Like, that's so cute. Or he would write something about while I was in high school, like, Na Eun seems really stressed about applying for college, applying for schools, applying for colleges. I was like, I was really stressed, dad. Yeah. He also, um, Kept my homework assignments from when I was in the first grade. Um, he, when we first came to America around in 2001, we used to communicate through Yahoo email. He printed all of those out and kept them in the binder. Printed all of the email threads out, put them, put them in the binder. Um, he had so many pictures of me and my brother. Just, this is how he stayed connected to us all of these years while my brother and I were in America. So, like, we barely, like, our phone conversations that we had usually was about, like, money. Like, Dad, can you send me money for this or that? Like, it usually was about that. Before my dad passed away, I made a commitment to call him every single day. So, our conversations became more like, what are you reading in the newspaper? What are you doing today? What did you have for lunch? Like, very basic things. Um, I remember we were once talking about, Who the president of America was and, um, global warming. And I was like, oh, phew, my brother, my dad believes in global warming. That's good, good size. Um, but as our, because I was also like working on my Korean. I can have basic conversations, but I wanted to get deeper. But we just never really got that much deeper. And I, as much as I, Could have explained to him what I do for a living. I don't know if he really like fully understood what I do for a living. Like he knows that I'm a speaker But I don't think he understands. I'm a motivational speaker. I'm not a teacher I think he thought I was a teacher doing lectures and stuff Um, but another thing that I learned about my dad after he had passed away is that he was a huge reader He has so many books and one of them was emotional intelligence 2. 0 I was reading the same book I was reading the same book and we never talked about it and it's like Imagine the conversations that we could have had if we had known Yes, and that's when I learned like, you know, I truly am the one product of both of my parents DNA's Like, I get the work ethic and the perseverance from my mom, and I used to think that my interest in psychology and holistic stuff, like, I used to think that was from my mom, too, because I remember her watching Oprah and Dr. Phil. But it turned out that, and yes, maybe it's still from my mom, too, because I remember watching Dr. Phil with her, and I was like, hey, mom, what is the profession of this guy? And she was like, he's a psychologist. Or whatever. And I was like, I want to do that when I grow up. Like, that was the first time I instilled in me psychology. But it turned out that, like, my love for philosophy and things like that, that comes from my dad. And so, after my dad passed away, my first speaking engagement coming back, because when he died, like, I had to push everything. I emailed all of my clients. I emailed all of my, um, speaking, potential speaking engagement clients. Um, my assistant helped me and we were just like mass email. Like, I'm out of here. I don't know when I'm coming back. I got to go to Korea. My dad died. Um, my first speaking engagement, I was like, you know what? This is cool. Watch this dad. Like watch what I actually do for a living. Now you get to watch me every single time I do what I do. And that's great. Now my mom gets to be like, yo, welcome. Like, watch how dope our daughter is because she's pretty sick at this. And then my parents get to watch me together. And I just know that every time I'm speaking, every time I'm writing, every time I'm doing anything, it's It's more than just speaking to me. It's more than just a profession to me. It's literally, literally me continuing my parents legacy. It is literally me honoring them because everything I do and speak about in the way that I execute is literally the product of both of my parents DNAs. That's

Mimi Gonzalez:

exactly why I wanted to show exactly that, because I just have this admiration and I don't want to say because it's like work related, but it's like, after someone, I just, I just Really, what it is, is how can someone, after experiencing so much loss, how are they navigating that after that? How are they creating a platform for others to feel safe to also express themselves? How are they expressing themselves? How are they having fun? Fun. How are they having fun? How are they like exploring hobbies? You said you were a combat, what? What is it? Combat. Combat sports. Combat sports. You know, like how are they just navigating life and making sense of something that just doesn't make sense? Well, they have grief sense. That's exactly what it is. Like they're, you're doing such impactful things and providing a platform for other people to do the same thing. And honestly, I see that within me as well. And I'm like, there has to be other people. that share this feeling or share this sentiment. And literally that's what I, there wasn't a word for it. So that's what I named griefsense. I was like, okay, we have all of our five senses, right? Like we can smell, we can touch, we can taste, we can hear, right. But I also feel like there's another, and I don't know if it's another sense on top of it. I just think it really, Heightens the senses we have collectively. It makes us feel deeper. I'm more, it's like, it's like present. Being present is the thread between all of the different senses we have. I feel like that's what griefsense is, it's like you feel things more. You listen to things differently. You, you know, You smell things differently. It's just like everything is heightened and everything is much more special. The little things that other people think are little things are actually huge things. Yes. That's what I feel like. I just, I know when someone loses someone, it's just that, that feeling, that griefsense. I was like, I know someone has experienced loss before they even tell me. I just, I just feel it. And then on top of that, to your point of like, and it's so, I'm a speaker, like we have just so many synergies. It's really wild to me. Like it's really wild. But like, yeah. There's the other sense that I don't want to get because you know, some people are into like, I don't call it woo woo, but they call it woo woo stuff. I am very spiritual. I'm not religious. I'm more like spiritual, but I definitely feel the energy continues on after we die and for me, I have to believe that. Because that is the only connection I have to my father. That's the only connection I have to my best friend that died, to my grandparents, to my godmother, to my cousins. I've lost so many people. That is what makes me sane, is feeling like I'm still connected. Through them, through the work that I'm doing. When I speak to a lot of the youth about youth mental health, when I'm doing this podcast, when I'm talking to people like you, when I am creating content, it's like, you know what, if I die tomorrow, I know I will die peacefully because I was doing things to honor my people and on top of that a lot of the people that have died in my life have been really young. Like my father died when he was 21 years old and it's so wild like this week is actually his anniversary and he's been, I'm 28, I just, I'm 28 and he's been gone 28 years. Like what? Like I'm outliving my own dad. Like, wow. To your point. And it's just as these, as I get older and as these milestones come and, you know, I'm starting to, and I wanted to ask you this question, if you experienced this. So I recently learned a word called glimmers, and essentially it's like positive. So it's the opposite of a trigger. So like when you have those negative reminders that kind of just set you off and like, you know, trigger something negatively within you, or like just having a really intense visceral response to something, it's like also having that same visceral reaction, but positively with the glimmer and like, I love when these glimmers happen to me. I love it. Like before I used to reject it and hate it. But now I'm like, give me all the signs. Give me all of it. Like when a song comes on, when a certain smell comes, when someone says something and it makes me think of something about my dad. Like, I just, I love it. I live for those moments. I breathe those moments. Like, and I just want to share those moments with other people so deeply. And everything that we've talked about is just like one big glimmer, I guess. That's And that is what I want these episodes, I'm getting emotional, this is what I want these episodes to feel like is that people who are going through what we have gone through know that they're not alone, that it is A living miracle that we're alive today because there are many times where we could have given up and we did not. And that's the one thing where I say resilience definitely comes into play there. Don't give up. But how are you living? And for me, the most beautiful thing that we can do over any achievement that we can achieve over any speaking opportunity that we can get over any brand collaboration or social media followers or likes or whatever, whatever, The way we measure success, how I measure success, has completely changed ever since I've experienced loss. How I measure success now is how I'm feeling in the moment, how present are we being, the time we're spending with our loved ones, and scheduling time to have fun, scheduling time to be creative. That is how I measure success now, not by someone else's ruler. Like, and I feel like that's what adulting looks like now already losing one parent and all these other losses that I've had. How do we continue to measure success the older we get now with this new perspective of like loss brought in, you know? And so that is kind of something I'm navigating now on top of just Humanizing our parents because it's like, like you mentioned, like your parents were one way, right? And then they died and then you kind of learned so much more about them and in a way I feel like that's so beautiful and it's sad, but it's beautiful because it's like you're learning to humanize them, you know, and I feel like that is really what it's all about. Our parents are just big kids trying to figure it out and Just like we are, you know, and that has helped me just like humanize other people like obviously no one's perfect We're gonna make mistakes. But before I try to unless they're being like Racist and all that. I'm gonna call your ass out. I'm gonna call y'all out. But if you're not doing that, I will definitely come with all the compassion and kindness and stuff, but that's kind of what all of that made me think about, so thank you. Um, but You know, before we end, I definitely do want to talk about this, right? And just the spirit of this week. I don't know if you know, but like this week, June 12th, that's the anniversary of the, um, nightclub, the Pulse shooting that happened eight years ago. And just we're in June, it's pride month. And I really can't end this conversation without you talking about the aspect of yourself, because so many people will hear this. Um, and I think so many people will feel seen and validated by you. So if you're comfortable, I kind of really wanted to talk a little bit about that and your identity as a whole. Did you have that opportunity to invite your parents in to share that side of you or your identity? Um, and like, Being part of the LGBT community, like, how does that inform your life now, especially dealing with loss and your career and all the things that you're doing? Like, talk to us, talk to the people.

Jiggy Yoon:

Yeah, thank you so much for highlighting that. That was important for me to want to talk about. So with my mom, Uh, I was able to come out to her. I came out to her when I was 13 years old. I've been knowing I'm gay, though. Like, in Korea, When I was growing up in Korea, I knew that something was, I knew that something felt different to me. But, in Korea at the time, like, such a language didn't exist. It wasn't until I moved to Korea, I mean, moved to America and learned English, and learned that there was a term gay. Like, back then, back then, back in my day, the letters were like LGBT. There was no QIA What plus? Like, the only A plus in my life was my grades, you know what I'm saying? So, that's my favorite joke, by the way. Shoutouts to the queer Asians who get it. Uh, shoutouts to the queer Asians, it's our moment, let's go! Um, so, I learned a term, and so like, by the time that term came into my life, I was like, oh my gosh, I'm not alone in this. I identify with this. Cool. So I came out slowly. Um, I also say this that when I was growing up, I used to think that being gay was for white people because Ellen DeGeneres was the only representation that we had on television.

Mimi Gonzalez:

You're not wrong. So like anything. Share that. Like if it wasn't for my godfather, literally Ellen was the only other person.

Jiggy Yoon:

Right. So I didn't know that there would be, it wasn't even until 2022 that I learned that there were like a whole community of queer Asians. That was only two years ago. So, um, yeah, yeah. So I came out one by one to my friends at the time when I was in middle school. But the thing was that I, Went to a Catholic private middle school of a student of 100 total. So when I told one by one, my friends, one by one, they were taking it all cool. But this one chick who would call herself my best friend ended up telling the girl that I had a crush on the girl, got pissed, called my home, told her parents, parents, called the school. It was this whole thing. I lost all of my friends by the end of, by graduation. I lost all of my friends by graduation.

Mimi Gonzalez:

Conniving ass mofos.

Jiggy Yoon:

Once I went to high school, I moved away. I moved to, that's when I moved to, I moved from Michigan to New York for high school and that's when I learned about Gay Straight Alliance. That ended up pulling me to tell my mom, come out to my mom because I used to be like goody two shoes, didn't go anywhere without telling my mom. So I was like, hey, I want to go to GSA club and see what that's about. She's like, what's that and why would you want to go to something like that? And so that's when I took the opportunity to come out to my mom and the conversation Ended up being about my grades. So I would say, I, I, mom, I think I'm bisexual. It means that I'm attracted to both men and women. And she will be like, that's what you think about instead of studying. And, you know, it just became a whole another conversation that I, it went on a direction that I didn't think it would go. And it just became something that we just don't talk about. So, when I would go to pride, I would have to lie, but somehow she knew I was at pride. Um. And we never talked about it. It was just the thing that you just don't talk about and it wasn't until, again, it wasn't until around the time that she passed away, like right before she passed away, she started to ask me questions about me being gay. Like, curiosity questions, like, how do you know you're gay? All of this, like, how do you know this isn't a phase? Like, questions out of curiosity. Like, a part of me could have been offended, but another part of me is like, she's finally curious. And that was by the time I was like 19, 20 years old. So that's seven years after I had come out to her, so she's finally coming around and asking me questions. I'm not gonna hate on that. So she passed away knowing that I'm gay, but my dad passed away. He passed away not even knowing I had tattoos and I have a whole sleeve. Like, whenever I went to Korea, I would wear long sleeves. And, um, every time he would be like, you know, when are you going to get married or, you know, I would ask him like, you know, one, one time I played along. I was like, okay, dad, like, I, you look at me. I've been, I've always dressed like this, you know, tomboy, but like, I was like, look at me. Hello? But my dad is, my dad was old. Bless him. He was old, you know, whatever. He's a traditional Korean guy. So I just like played along with him one day. I was like, okay, dad, why do you want me to marry a Korean man? And why does it have to, why does he have to be Korean? Why, why not like, white man. Like, why Korean? And my dad would be like, because Korean men are gentlemen. And I'd be like, okay, I get it. I get it. Um, I'm not dating a Korean man. I would be like, at the time I was dating a Mexican woman, but all right. Um, like I used to have a thing for Latina women, so I only dated Latina women at the time. Um, but he passed away, never knowing that I'm gay. And so, I used to joke, oh jiggy, I used to joke when my parents were both alive, I used to joke that I'll come out when, I'll get married when they pass away. I don't want to deal with coming out. And then when mom passed away, I was like, dang, I better stop making that joke. I better stop making that comment because we halfway there. You know what I'm saying? And then once my dad passed away, once my dad passed away, I was like, I wonder if he would have walked me down the aisle. And I wonder if we would have done the father daughter dance, you know, and I'm left with that question. And for some time I asked that question, but like I was asking that question even before he had passed on, because I'm constantly like, when is the right time to tell my dad? But then I have family members who would be like, Don't tell your dad yet. Don't tell your dad. He had a heart attack just recently. Don't tell him. And I was like, you know, my dad is getting older. I don't want to give him a heart attack. That was a legitimate concern. And I was like, let me just not, we'll just see what happens when the time comes. And so I, now that he's passed on, you know, But again, the parenting from the peace portion came along, and, um, I don't believe in coincidences, and I believe this happened for a reason, but there was this film that came out where my friend asked me if I wanted to go see it, and it was this Korean documentary, I think it came out in like 2021 or something like that, and it was, it, it, it was created in Korea, like it's a Korean film, and it was a documentary of two parents, two mothers of, um, One, gay son, and the other dude is, uh, a trans man. And you see these Korean mothers supporting their queer children. And then they started to talk about how there are these parent groups in Korea where they meet up to talk about their queer children, support each other, celebrate each other. They go do pride together. Pride is like barely legal in Korea, but they do it anyways. They are, you know, Like advocates, they constantly try to pass bills, they, they, they're, they're protests and somehow end up with riots with people who are against their messages, they get punched in the face, like, just trailblazers. But I saw this film, and they were asking them like, why are you such a strong advocate for your child? And they'd be like, Because it's my child. Because I love them. And hearing that from a Korean parent, I have never seen anything like it. Like, Korean elders used to point fingers at me like, you freaking banana. Like, you're an Asian just stuck in a white person's body. Like, you, but like, or like, look at your tattoos. You're a bad example for our children. Like, don't influence them with your gay, like, all of that stuff. And now there is, I don't know, this. ally group of parents, Korean parents, who are really paving the way for all of us. And once I saw that, I was like, and I got to meet them. It was a meet and greet with those mothers. So I got to go talk to them directly. And I told them that my dad died last year. And I had this question in my head. But you have completely confirmed that yeah, my parents definitely would have been at my wedding. And I don't even want to question it anymore. Like, what's the point? I don't want to question that anymore. Do I believe my parents love me? Absolutely. So that's kind of, I think that sometimes when people pass on, there's just things that we have to believe. And that's it. That's, that's it. And this is what I choose to believe. I have to, otherwise I go crazy.

Mimi Gonzalez:

Literally, right? And, well, one thing I, thank you so much for sharing all, I think it also just, Educates other people too. And thank you for even taking the time to take that labor Okay to educate people because a lot of people will be listening who have no idea Because they haven't been exposed to what Korean culture is. So I just want to acknowledge that right? The other thing I also want to acknowledge too is just the liberation that you are providing your Korean ancestors By just being who you are today Like that. I just see liberation. Honestly, I just that's I see freedom You I see that because I mean, not in the American dream or nightmare, in the sense of freedom, brother, in the sense of you being you and being on these stages and sharing your story and having the tattoos and grieving and being gay. And like, you know, that's what it's all about. And there's so many people who came before you who didn't have that privilege or didn't choose to do it because of the fear. Right. Right. Of the backlash of what people would do. And a lot of this conversation, honestly, just made me think about how much code switching has such a power. Over us, right? And it is a deliberate choice to choose to not code switch and what authenticity, what professionalism is. I don't know if you know, Pabel, he's one of my friends. He owns, um, he runs La Quien Tu Eres podcast, and basically his whole message is challenging what traditional professionalism is. Um, so he has a lot of folks on the podcast kind of talking about what their relationship is with this word professionalism and authenticity.

Jiggy Yoon:

That's good.

Mimi Gonzalez:

Um, I would love, I can definitely introduce y'all. He's so dope. He lives in New York. Um, and I also want to introduce you to my friend Noel.. He's from Philly, but he lives in San Francisco. He also lost both his parents before 30 and he was my first podcast guest on griefsense. So I'm going to send a message to connect y'all cause y'all would hit it off for sure. Um, wow. Oh my gosh. We talked about so much. I am just so grateful, but also really quick. What are your pride plans? I'm so excited. I'm trying to get to New York. One of my, I always wanted to go to Chicago's pride because it's just like, Big and beautiful. And the diaspora is like gorgeous and awesome, but I can't make it this year. So I'm probably definitely going to go to New York. I don't know if you know this, but I'm in Hartford. I'm in Connecticut. So I'm like closer to, to New York's pride, which is always a good time. But yes, I would love to go to like a Cali situation. What are, what are your pride plans? Like,

Jiggy Yoon:

Yeah, just really quickly. I just want to touch on what you mentioned about authenticity and not code switching. Yo, intersectionality is a celebration. Like that's really where it's at. Every single one of you, you are so unique for a reason for a purpose. I used to think that I have to be this or that because I'm gay and I'm Christian. I'm a Korean woman. I'm supposed to be quiet and reserved. But here I am as a motivational speaker with tattoos and piercings. So all of these things, like you can own up to everything that you are and that'll make you so dope that that's what dopeness is when it comes to like professionalism that you also mentioned in college, I used to hate going to job fairs because people would stare at me and grill me because I was a girl wearing a suit. And so when it comes to like, I don't know if this still stands true to this day when, but when people talk about like, not having access to, You know, resources and jobs and things like that, like, those things all come into play. Like, people didn't even want to look at my resume because of the way that I was Because I grew up in the generation where freaking like, being gay was like, shunned. Like, there were no freaking like, out loud allies. There was no social media. There were no companies changing their logos to rainbows. So, yeah, that's what I went through. Um, yeah. But anyhow, uh, Pride plans, honestly, I am a little sad that I can't, I won't be able to attend, like, any Prides this year. Uh, high school, in high school and in college, I, I, man, New York Pride was it for me, like, man, that was so much fun, not just the parade, but, uh, After

Mimi Gonzalez:

parties?

Jiggy Yoon:

The after parties, yo, so, like, I don't, I, I heard this isn't, I, I heard that this isn't the case anymore. I, I heard they canceled this years ago, but. Back in my day, you go to the parade. I'm not old. I'm 31. I feel old. It hurts to sit. That's how old I am. It hurts to sit. Um, so there used to be, you go to the parade, and then you go to the back where the pier is, and this park was split into two. And the left would be the front. You know, fabulous gay boys, and in the right is like the lesbians, and so I would go to the right side, the lesbian side, and it would be just like music, twerking, just, just. Just ah, just partying, you know, it was so much fun. Um, but yeah, that was that was the pride that I went to. I've been to San Diego Pride and I've been to I haven't been to like LA Pride in terms of parade. 2017, I went to LA Pride because Kehlani was headlining. And it was a free concert at the she's my queen, y'all. Like, Kehlani Baelani, come on. Like, that's my pride. Her call her concerts are pride. It's in itself. Um, but this year I I missed LA Pride. Um, I missed Dyke Day LA. Um, I'm traveling next week. I'm gonna I'm about to miss San Francisco Pride. So, no pride for me this year. However, um, Um, I did get to have a speaking engagement speaking to BIPOC, LGBTQIA youth advocates, um, two days ago. So that was super sick. Talk, just talking to the youth. I'd do that any day. And then when I travel next week, I'm going to be on a panel for a, um, it's called Reading Rainbow hosted by Asian Mental Health Project and Queer Asian Social Club in LA. And we're going to be at the Chinatown Library in LA, uh, hanging out with the youth. And celebrating Pride and just doing a panel, um, just all of us gays just talking about being gay. And there's a confidence workshop, uh, hosted by a, um, a drag queen who's more confident than a drag queen. So that's, honestly, honestly, my Pride month is gonna be celebrating Juneteenth with my best friend, And, um, that's

Mimi Gonzalez:

right though, right? Like, it's, it's not just in June. Yo,

Jiggy Yoon:

I don't choose to be gay, y'all. Like, I don't wake up, choose to be gay, wear my gay clothes, have my gay breakfast, and breathe my gay air, okay? Like, listen, my straight friends tell me all the time too, if being gay was a choice, then they're, if, if choosing gay or choosing straight was a choice, they wouldn't choose to be straight. They don't want to deal with dudes crap also, look at women. They smell better. Okay? They feel better. They look prettier. Okay? Okay?

Mimi Gonzalez:

Well, you know, it's all wild too. Like, so our pride in Hartford, it's actually in September. It's always Oh, wow. So, I mean, hey, if you, can always

Jiggy Yoon:

come to Hartford. Listen, I've been to Connecticut'cause my, one of my high college best friends live there. I don't know if I'll go back, but you, I'm here, so, okay. Okay. Yeah. And my

Mimi Gonzalez:

mom and I are on the Pride Committee for Hartford. Oh,

Jiggy Yoon:

okay. Yeah. Yeah. You know what? You might change my mind friends.

Mimi Gonzalez:

Bring your friends. I don't know how I'm gonna

Jiggy Yoon:

convince my friends to go to Connecticut. It's not really like a city of choice for us, but, Mimi Gonzalez: yeah. Speaking of that, it's just so wild too that a lot of my podcast guests, because I don't know where any, where any of y'all live until like after we have a conversation. It's so wild, like half of y'all live in LA or like somewhere in California. I'm like, is this a sign?? Well, because you, because you interview creatives.

Mimi Gonzalez:

There you go. To your point, and this is kind of how I would love to like, close our session today about like, That word creative, right? I just think that experiencing grief, right? Like, obviously we talked on a lot of points there. We talked about a lot of positives. He was like that dark humor and, but it's really shitty for the most part. Grief is really shitty. Um, but to that point and how I want to connect it to creativity is like what I was saying when we first opened about having that skill to reinvent yourself. Right? You have to be a visionary. You have to see things before they happen. And I think that being a creative and then you add in the layer of grief, bruh, you can't tell us nothing. We can create anything. Thing we want. We are unfuckwithable. We are invincible. Oh my god. I literally

Jiggy Yoon:

say that word, too I have written that No way. I have never met somebody who uses that word, too

Mimi Gonzalez:

Are

Jiggy Yoon:

you me? Are we invincible And literally

Mimi Gonzalez:

we have another grief friend who's part of the griefsense familia also in la, um Her Tag on Instagram is the death alchemist, but her name is Adriana, um, and she says unfuckwithable too, when she said it on the podcast, I was like, bro, like, yes. So this is like another extension of chosen family, right? But being creative, right, like that is another layer to griefsense. I just really admire people who are just doing dope things, creating things. And a lot of people wouldn't think like being a speaker is being a creative, but it is, and you create content and you have the podcast and stuff. So how can people get tapped in with you, right. And keep, you know, connecting with you. Um, yeah, shameless plug it all the way. How can we get tapped in?

Jiggy Yoon:

Yeah, um, you can find me on Instagram, TikTok, Jiggy _ Yoon, my podcast, Shift Podcast, available on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. Um, my website, JiggyYoon. com, LinkedIn, JiggyYoon. Um, I do free workshops sometimes. That's, I just believe that, um, Accessibility to greatness is a very important thing. I don't believe that lack of finances should be a burden or a gatekeeper to tapping into your greatest potential. So I love to offer the offering of a free workshops. There are self improvement and leadership workshops, so come through. That's it y'all. Like, I would love to say that I, I mean, I have my apparel vulnerability is dope. Um, that is rebranding right now. So we're working on that, but, uh, I would love to one day, because you kept talking about like creative and things like that and grieving combined. I would love to have said that, yo, go grab my book. Like you can buy my book on Amazon, blah, blah, blah. But my book was something that I was working on for a while before my dad passed and when he, once he died, I dropped it, I was like, There's just no, there's no way I have bandwidth for to work on a book right now and to finish this book. So, my book is not here with us yet, but it will one day. And I've learned not to rush myself through anything. I used to operate like, no, no matter what happens this year, like I'm still gonna do this one thing. But I didn't give myself the spaciousness and I rushed it and it, It is business at the end of the day and it did not succeed. So I'm giving myself that spaciousness. You'll, you'll see my book when you see it.

Mimi Gonzalez:

Oh yeah. Oh, and I'm ready. I'm ready for it. Like you already got a whole line of people waiting to buy your book. Pre order it. Um, so I want to say, I would love to have you, um, as a speaker. I'm planning something called the grief sala or the grief sala fest. Um, and essentially sala in Spanish means living room. Um, so it's very intentional words where, like, the living talks about the dead, but also how we are creating, how we're living, how we're processing grief. Um, and I'm planning a really big conference, an annual conference, essentially. And so all of my podcast guests that have been on griefsense, y'all already know. Because like, if you want, um, cause the whole message is in my audience is always Gen Z and millennials. So people between like 18 and 35, of course, with some allies or people on the outskirts or whatever, but that's the main people I talk to. Um, and that is who this conference is for. So if you're down, I would love to have you there, update you on all the things. Um, but you know, the biggest message I have too, is like, Life is worth living and life is a privilege to to be able to wake up every day is a gift to be able to now Coexist and live and know that you live in the same timeline that I live in like what that's so cool It's so dope and like I just want us to keep making these dope connections Especially with people that are younger than us too, right? That it might be their first introduction to grief and never had these types of conversations or tools or language, right? Like just to, because there's mental health, right? There's a youth mental health crisis going on. We know this. Yes. Yes. And that is a huge umbrella. That's a huge spectrum. And of course, I like to talk all things mental health, but grief There's a whole nother animal, a whole new world, literally, a whole nother thing. And so specifically talking to youth that are grieving, I mean, it's just different. And so that's, I just, I just need you, I need you there. Like, yeah. I don't know all the things, but yeah, this essentially every episode I try to treat it as. We're in the grief sala right now. We're talking about our dreams, we're talking about our goals, we're talking about people who have died, we're honoring them. This is literally my jam. I'm so happy and I wasn't motivated to do the work that I have to, I have a huge pitch competition coming up for griefsense because I'm turning griefsense into a startup and like that's a whole, yeah, a whole new, uh, yeah, that whole thing. Um, and now I have motivation to do it. So thank you for that and fuel my fire.

Jiggy Yoon:

Grieving, I think, is the one thing, one biggest thing in life, I think, that can humble us and show us how human we are, and that we can never do things alone. We literally can't, no matter how much we want to or believe we can. And so I think that, Um, working in community and together is the most powerful thing. I also want to touch up on one of the things that you said before about like how the meaning of life when my dad died. I learned that like life is really about deepening relationships and creating memories. And um, I read one of your Instagram posts where you talk about like how you didn't think that you could make, you would make it this far in your life. Girl, I used to say the same exact thing. Same exact thing. I literally thought 2020 was the year I was going to die. I, there's a clip of me telling my friends that in my head, 20, the number 2020 was always in my head and I never knew why. And I thought it would be a huge year. And I, I, it was so huge that I thought I was going to die in 2020. But it turns out to be a world pandemic. But now that 2020 has passed, I'm like, well now what? I didn't die, so what do I do now? So, I feel like every single day, um, I went through a really tough time with my dad dying where I just really hit a really, really, really, really dark and low place. But my friends really got me through. Once again, so shout out to my friends. I want to honor them as well. Mimi, you're absolutely incredible. So amazing. You're such an impressive human being. I'm so excited for all of the things that you're creating, because not only excited for you, because it's a hundred percent your calling for sure, but the amount of people that you're about to help and serve and impact, I'm excited for them too. It's because of people like you and me, like ain't nobody talking about this stuff. And thankfully we have access to resources like social media and podcasts now where we can talk about it to help people feel less alone because grieving can feel really, really lonely. And oftentimes, even when we're in the presence of other people, it can still feel lonely, especially holidays. Hello. So I really appreciate you and being invited into your space in your community. I'm excited for us to just build our relationship moving forward.

Mimi Gonzalez:

Absolutely. Or a woman, I should say. Me and my best friend say a woman. Thank you so much. I loved spending quality time with you, learning more about your story. And yeah, it's just the beginning, so buckle up, buttercup, like we, we lock

Jiggy Yoon:

in. Entrepreneurs love to say this. It's only the beginning. It's only the beginning.

Mimi Gonzalez:

Listen, uh, I, yeah, all the things. I'm just excited, but. so much. Thank you for everyone tuning in to our special episode today. Please let us know what you think, comment, share, subscribe, all of the things, connect with Jiggy, please. And this will not be the last time you see of us collaborating. Just, just, we calling it. Okay. We're manifesting it.

Jiggy Yoon:

We got so much coming.

Mimi Gonzalez:

Uh, dropping our mixtape 2025. Um, with that though, thank you griefsense familia, and we'll catch you on the next episode. Bye. Bye. griefsense familia, that wraps up another episode of the grief sense podcast. If this resonated with you, please feel free to share with someone who will appreciate it and tell a friend to tell a friend. Also, I'm a firm believer that feedback is a gift. So, you know, I'm just saying, I won't be mad if you decide to leave a review and a rating of your experience on the podcast so far, also let's help each other find community in grief and let's amplify these stories far and wide. Thank you for tuning in, in solidarity, y con mucho amor.