Melanie Wilson on: being the 'death of the party' & finding community in grief

If you've ever felt like the "Death of the Party" because grief is part of your story, then this episode is for you.

I had the pleasure of interviewing Melanie Wilson, the founder of Death of the Party, a community where the conversation on creating spaces for those touched by loss—especially within the LGBTQ+ community and those in solidarity—can transform the experience of grief.

Melanie and I discuss how critical it is to have a community when facing grief, something that’s often overlooked in our day-to-day environments, especially at work. We also discuss what workplaces can do to better support employees when this happens.

 Melanie shares insights from her own journey of loss, highlighting how the pandemic has reshaped our need for connection and the unique role that online platforms and in person events can play in bridging the gap. Tune in and you'll hear firsthand her experience on experiencing two deaths in public,  one of a stranger & the other, her coworker, and how she navigated that! You also don't want to miss the once in a lifetime full circle moment she experienced after her father passed away. 

In this episode, we also shout out our friends at Reimagine and The Dinner Party. If you're looking for community specifically in NY, then please connect with Melanie and Death of the Party and follow them on Instagram.

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Transcript

Mimi Gonzalez: 0:00

You're listening to season two of the grief sense podcast. I'm your host Mimi Gonzalez, AKA the Zillennial Griever. I am a creative entrepreneur, social impact strategist and community organizer based in Hartford, Connecticut. But most importantly, I am a Griever. griefsense is really a safe space for creatives who are grievers, and I really created this space because it's something I wish I had. And sometimes you have to create the things that you wish existed. I am a serial griever, where I've experienced significant loss, losing about 20 people before I turned 25 years old, and it was really hard to find community, people who look like me. In the death positive movement space. On the show, you'll mainly hear from Gen Z and millennial minoritized grievers, but you'll also have some advocates on the show who share our experience, but also want to amplify our voices and our stories. So what is grief sense? What, what does that even mean? Right? It's not just some fancy name of a brand or the podcast. Okay. It's actually a term that I've coined to name my experience. Sometimes the words So griefsense to me really is an inner sixth sense and intuition that's unlocked after experiencing physical loss and it inspires purpose through it. Creative expression. Hence, grievers who are creatives. So we do this in three ways. One, we embrace our mantra, which is we live life as a privilege. Two, We honor our ancestors and the legacies of our loved ones who have died. And three, we not only normalize talking about grief and death and everything in between, but we really talk about the importance of planning for our death and talking about this in community with our families. What are our death care wishes, you know, and really normalizing that because that is not something that. We typically do in our very death phobic world. I hope that when you tune into these episodes that you feel super comfortable. I want you to think that you are in a living room or in Spanish, we say the sala, but the grief sala, and I hope that you're able to have. Tea in your hand or a cafecito so that way you're comfortable. I want you to feel like you're talking to your best friends or your primos or your cousins, people who really understand you and get it. And if you are not a griever, and if you are here to learn and listen to the stories that are shared on the show, thank you so much for being here. Your voice is important too, because guess what? If you're not a griever now, unfortunately you will be one day. And I'm hoping that the insights that you hear on the show will help you navigate that experience. one thing I wanted to also share y'all griefsense is always going to be lowercase because death, grief, all of that, it can be really scary. So these conversations is to really de stigmatize death and grief and really making sure it's like relatable, digestible, accessible, and yeah, it can be scary for sure, but let's do it together. Let's be in community together. So with that. Welcome to the movement. Welcome to La Familia and welcome to griefsense. Let's dive in. Welcome back listeners of grief sense. I am so excited to spend time with you all for this session. I have an amazing guest with us today and I just have to say y'all like these conversations just keep getting better and better and better. And this is really a testament to, and I, you know, I've been reflecting a lot on just entrepreneurship and, and being creative and it really means a lot. When you take action on your dreams and your goals, because naturally you attract people that are on the same level as you or higher, just on your same wave. And it's just been amazing. The community that's starting to build out of grief sense and amazing guests like Melanie Wilson that we have today. Um, and so I can't wait for you all to get to know her more and her story. And I think you all are going to connect with everything that she has to say. I want to hand the mic over to Melanie. Feel free to introduce yourself. Sure. Thanks,

Melanie Wilson: 4:20

Mimi. I'm Melanie Wilson. I am calling from, uh, New Jersey today. I'm in the New York City metro area. Um, I am by daytime, I'm a project manager. And then by my passionate side projects, um, I'm a creator of, um, a group called Death of the Party, which is a grief community, um, in New York City area. And I put together events, um, with this group and for this group, um, in order for people to have a place to, be creative and create community around grief, as well as we're opening it up to death education as well this year. I really like to. Focus on the idea of, um, of us grieving together as opposed to just focusing on the idea that everyone grieves differently because they think that that can definitely be something that people, find really hard to talk to other grievers if they only focus on the idea that we grieve differently.

Mimi Gonzalez: 5:24

Wow, that is some powerful stuff right there. So y'all, you need to get tapped in, okay, with Melanie and Death of the Party. And I have to tell you when I first, like, When you shared, you know, with me in our first conversation, when we talked about the work that you do, I was like, that is so clever. Like, you know, when you talk about being the life of the party, it's like, y'all, we going to be talking about being the death of the party like that. Can you just talk a little bit more about that? Like, how did you come up with like the name that's so clever?

Melanie Wilson: 5:54

Yeah, sure. Thank you. So, um, and some, some people don't get it at first, so it's, it's pretty funny when people don't, don't get it, um, the play on the words. But, um, basically what I was doing, um, as we were coming out of lockdown in New York City, um, I had recently moved here due to the death, the unexpected death of my father in 2018. I'd moved to the city area and, um, I was, kind of on the cusp of COVID at that time. So then when I wanted to make friends as we were coming out of lockdown, I started going to different mixers, mainly LGBTQ mixers, because I am in part of the queer community. And, um, I would talk to people about my story and they would ask, you know, like, have you lived in New York City for your whole life? No, I haven't. You know, okay, when did you come here? Why did you come here? And for me, my story is because I wanted to be closer to my family after my dad's unexpected death. And for, for folks who cannot relate to grief and do not have that their own background, it can definitely be a damper on our conversation. And I had left a couple of conversations feeling kind of like the death of the party. Um, but I, uh, as you know, as a person who is very open to talking about my grief, and I kind of want to show that as an example, I don't shy away from telling people that part of my story because It has really opened up community and relationships with folks who can relate. So I'm not going to just hold off on that, um, because You know, some people might be uncomfortable with it, but that's really where that death of the party versus life of the party came in for that name.

Mimi Gonzalez: 7:48

Wow. I love that. And like, something I'm pulling out of what you said is like, y'all, we are not dimming our light for anyone else. Okay? Like, even if that means talking about death and something that might be like, uncomfortable for other people, like, this is what it's all about. Right? And just kind of normalizing these conversations. Like, we all are going to experience it. Experience grief in different ways. D you know, we're all going to experience loss at some point in our lives, and so I just love what you're doing. I love the play on words, and yeah, I just really hope people get to embrace more of what you're doing, you know, and it's, it's, it's essentially kind of same thing with grief sense, right? Like, it's like, Hey, and I just, ever since I was a kid, I don't know, I was just always. I was like, yeah, let's talk about death. Let's talk about death, baby. You know, like that's always going to be like super normal for me. And I think that. With having these conversations though, I do, I don't want to say caution, but it's like, Oh wait, like I should probably like do a trigger warning or something like that. Just to like tell people Hey, you might, I'm a lot sometimes like I talk about death and if you're cool with that, then, then we're great. We're going to be great friends.

Melanie Wilson: 9:04

Yeah. It is, it is interesting to think about a trigger warning for something that every single person is going to have as part of their life. Right. Exactly.

Mimi Gonzalez: 9:15

Yeah. Love that. Wow. Well, thank you so much for being here today. I can't wait to learn more about you and your story and really can't wait for the, you know, listeners out there to really, you know, just amplify everything that you're doing, get part of it and learn more about the death positive space and the work that you and I both do. Um, so yeah, without further ado, let's, let's jump in. Let's, let's dive in. And because this is not the death of the party here. This is this good. This is giving me all the life. Okay, like literally seriously. So with that, you know, just kind of setting the tone for our conversation today. And I know you briefly talked about someone that you did lose, but I want to just give you space to see who you're calling into our space today. Who would you like to honor? And it's okay if it's more than one person.

Melanie Wilson: 10:08

Yeah, for sure. So I would like to honor my dad, um, who I said before died in 2018. Um, suddenly his name is Tony. Um, I also had a friend and colleague who died the year before. Her name is Amy. Um, and my grandmother who I have. Her beautiful boxes that she, uh, collected, uh, behind me that I was like, oh yeah, gotta, gotta call her in as well. Um, Margaret as well, so.

Mimi Gonzalez: 10:39

Love that. Hi, Tony, Amy and Margaret. I am honored to, you know, spend some time with your wonderful family member and friend today. Um, and yeah. So, so with that, do you kind of want to go in and share your grief story? However much you are comfortable sharing, um, feel free to, to share with us.

Melanie Wilson: 11:03

Yeah, for sure. So, um, I, I can't remember exactly when the first time that I I heard about death when I was little. I know a lot of people can like pinpoint that. I do remember a beloved aunt, um, that my mother had lost and kind of trying to understand why when I was six she was like crying about someone who was in another country that she hadn't seen in a while. I didn't grow up with a lot of, of grief and death around me. I also had a very small family, um, and still getting smaller, but getting a little bit larger too. Um, and so I, I would say that it was in maybe, um, Must've been like towards the end of junior high that I did lose my grandmother, um, one of my grandmothers, not Margaret, um, Anne, and, uh, and I hadn't ever met her husband, my, um, grandpa George, cause he had died when my dad was, um, was in his twenties. So I, I knew about death and I knew that, you know, there were people missing in the family and people who were missing them. Um, but really I would say that. My grandmother passed and I definitely had grief around that, but she was also, it was the idea of like dying of old age kind of thing. So that was less of a, um, significant moment in the sense of, of grief and like traumatic events may happen. Um, so it was in my twenties when I was traveling, there was There were three years where it had significant deaths. So the first one, I actually, um, did experience someone who I didn't know, but I did experience their, um, cardiac arrest. And then I found out a couple of, Days later that they died after being put into medically induced coma and I didn't understand Trauma at that point or that it would affect me because I was like, well I didn't know this man and I wasn't you know, a family member but being in that moment was very Um, interesting and, and very, you know, scary moment where I was like, I want to do everything I can to help. Um, cause it was in, you know, a small space and it was in, um, a place where I had just met him and he just met his family. Um, so yeah, so that was a very, um, Unique experience. And then a year later is when my friend and colleague, Amy died kind of in a similar way, um, where I was also there when she went into, she didn't go into cardiac arrest, but she did have like her last conscious breaths, um, at work. And I realized that, yeah, yeah, it was, um, it was really difficult for sure. And I Unfortunately, my bosses weren't very thoughtful, um, at the cafe that we were at and folks didn't, she also went into medically induced coma and then didn't come out of it a few days later. And, um, my, my bosses were not supportive enough and they didn't really think of the idea of, of workplace trauma and that they should support us. So I ended up kind of finding myself trying to support My other colleagues from my understanding of my previous trauma and what, you know, this could be in our place, you know, in, in our own space. And what it's like to show up at work where one of your friends has died. Basically took her last conscious rest there. Um, so there was a lot around that, um, because, you know, people would come in and ask questions that they shouldn't have asked and people were rude about things. And then there were also customers who were really caring, you know, and, and really wanted to support us. So there was a whole combination of feeling around that and, and a very public. way of grieving and not grieving and trying to deal with it. Um, and then a year later is when my dad, um, died unexpectedly. And, um, all three of these were a while I was in a different country. So I, I had, uh, three, three significant deaths in a row. And after my dad's death, especially having had the, uh, experience with Amy's death. I really, really was seeking community after that, after my dad's death as well, and really wanted to be with people who could understand my story. And so then from there, I learned about the organization, The Dinner Party, which is like an online platform for folks who are in their twenties, thirties, and early forties to come together and host grief groups Um, that aren't practitioner based, they're just peer based, and I've been hosting a virtual group, um, for almost three years now through The Dinner Party, and I've also been part of an in person group for a little over a year, and that really has been such a significant part of, of my grief journey, for sure, being able to, to share in, in grief and, and be Wow. Wow. Wow.

Mimi Gonzalez: 16:41

Wow. I'm my brain is like going all over the place. Um, but first I want to share. Thank you so much for sharing that. And, you know, I am just always so impressed with people. How open and courageous they are with sharing their story. And I'm just so grateful that you're here with us in this space. Um, and I can only imagine just navigating all of that trauma in such a short amount of time and just still being here and being the amazing person that you are and you giving support to other people that are grieving. I mean, that's just. It's just really beautiful and it takes a really special person to do that. So, thank you for still being here and being alive and not giving up and for sharing your story because I really do think it's gonna inspire other people to do the same, right? To share their story and To find community, to build community, and how awesome is it that through all of that grief and that trauma that what you took out of it is like, okay, instead of isolating, which I'm sure you probably had some moments of that at some point, but it's like, I need to be in community. So what can I do to get that? And I think that's such a, that's so powerful. And I really want to amplify that. For other people tuning in that there are resources that exist out there to find community, to be in community that you do not have to grieve alone. Um, although these moments are very, they can feel very lonely and they can feel very isolating, but I love that out of that, you're like, you know what, I'm going to go find community. I'm going to build community. So that beautiful, absolutely beautiful.

Melanie Wilson: 18:28

Thanks.

Mimi Gonzalez: 18:29

Yeah. So, I mean, I would love to start, uh, just really quick with, you know, experiencing the death of a stranger. I mean, I can only imagine like you're in a public setting. There's other people around. I can only imagine everything that's going on in a short amount of time, such a high tense, high pressure situation. And the reason I wanted to bring that up too, is because there might be, you know, Uh, an experience where me or other people tuning in where this can happen, right? This can happen at any moment. And the fact that you experienced that firsthand, I mean, what advice would you give to people if they were in a similar situation and like literally they might be in a situation where they are forced to, not forced, I don't know if that's the right word, but you know, they're called to action with supporting someone who's facing. A very scary moment.

Melanie Wilson: 19:29

Oh, for sure. Yeah. So it, it was a very unique circumstance because I was traveling. Um, I was in Italy and my grandmother had put me in touch with one of her friends, friends, potentially friends, um, I think it was like four times removed, um, someone who lived there in, in Florence. He doesn't know English very well. So he was like, Oh, you should come with me to my friend's house. Um, we're going to have a dinner and his, and he's very good at English and, um, and his, I think his partner, uh, she was from Australia. So he was like, we'll get together with my brother and these two friends. Um, you know, we'll, we'll take you to dinner out, out at, um, well at their apartment and we'll and, and we'll use them as translators as we need to. So it was like this nice setting and, um, and so he walked me, he picked me up at my hotel, he walked me over to, um, to their apartment, and when we got there, they were kind of like screaming down to him, and I, I did not understand what was going on because the one semester of Intro Italian did nothing for me, unfortunately, for that moment. So I, so we like started running up the stairs and, um, and his brother was on the floor and in cardiac arrest and it was very scary. So I think that that's a, It's important to, to honor that it is a very scary moment. And in, in that moment I was like, okay, what can I do that's not going to make it worse for them? Right. So, and this actually happened when my friend Amy died as well, being in, once again, in a public setting. So, I just helped them like push away the things that, you know, were scary. were in the kitchen where his brother was on the ground. Like I, cause they had been cooking prior to us being there and there were knives and things like that. So I just, I, I pushed things away so that when the paramedics would come there could, as much as could be, you know, be an easy way to get in. And then I, I did my best to, to stay out of the way because I thought that that was the most important thing. And I just said once or twice, like, If you need anything. Um, and then when they rushed off to the hospital, like the, the brother and, um, who had brought me there and, and his brother, he went with, with his brother to the hospital and, um, These friends were like in shock, right? In a lot of shock. And I was at that point, um, hadn't gone through any of my future grief journey. And I was like, okay, would I want to, like, if I was them, how would I feel about me? Right. So I told them like, don't worry about me. You do not have to give me dinner. You don't have to do anything. Um, you know, I, I have, I studied abroad there. So I was like, you're not leaving me in a strange, a strange city by myself. But even if I, you know, you were, that's fine. Um, but I, I also offered, I said like. I'm also happy to stay and talk to you about your friend, right? And that's what they opted for. And little did I know that later on, that's the type of thing that everyone that I know in my circles and that I do this community building for ops for that too. So it was a moment where I was able to. Spend time just like listening to them and what they needed in that moment.

Mimi Gonzalez: 23:27

Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow, and I mean like even though you were familiar Enough with the space you were still in a foreign country away from home Experiencing that and that's like I can only imagine like going to this place one way And then coming back home forever changed, you know, like that. I just really can't imagine experiencing that. So I, I love everything that you said, really phenomenal advice. I hope that none of us have to experience something like that, but in the event that we do, I thought that was great, you know, and, and I, and I love that they did opt in to, to talk about. Just the experience and talk about their brother because sometimes talking about it really does help even though we think that that's not the case. But yeah, it does. Talking does definitely help a lot. Um,

Melanie Wilson: 24:20

yeah.

Mimi Gonzalez: 24:21

Thank you so much for going deeper into that and sharing more. Um, and then with Amy, I mean, so similar to you, I mean, I experienced it wasn't at work, but my boss Ended up passing away. Um, and that was really hard. Like that was really tough because and just everything you said with your story to like, this is someone you spend a lot of time with like working and like we do spend the majority of our time at work, you know, like you might not think that's like, Oh my gosh, I can't wait to get out of work and go for the weekend and do whatever I got to do. But like, These people we spend a lot of time with even sometimes more than our own family. So it's like you end up building, you know, bonds with them, whether you like it or not, or whether you expect to or not, like you form these deep bonds with these people. And that is really tough because I feel like And I'm sure you can agree, like, and you even mentioned it with your bosses not being, you know, aware and like the total lack of support that they offer. Um, it's, it's just to really reaffirm and normalize for people. Like, Hey, our workplaces, our society is. So death phobic. It's crazy. Like

Melanie Wilson: 25:41

you

Mimi Gonzalez: 25:41

even say the word death at work, like, you know, kind of what we were talking about when we first started, like, you just say the word death or grief. Like people are all automatically like, ah, let's not talk about that at work, but it's like, what happens when that happens at work?

Melanie Wilson: 25:56

Absolutely.

Mimi Gonzalez: 25:58

You know?

Melanie Wilson: 25:58

Yeah. So, and even, and even outside of work, I think, you know, there's a lot of talk about, or I know for instance, the dinner party does now work with, um, workplace. And like, what does that look like even for someone who has experienced a loss in their life and they're coming back from their two days or three days of bereavement, um, cause that's when they're supposed to be better. And like, what does that look like for a boss, um, who needs to be empathetic to what this person is going through and things like that. Um, and then it's, would say it's a level up or just like a different level when. It happens at work or it is someone at work that you've lost too. And like, how does the workplace treat that? And I, I, I was at a point where when I left a month later, I was already going to leave from that position. I, This was actually in New Zealand. I was living in New Zealand. So I,

Mimi Gonzalez: 27:01

what is your life, Melanie? And I have it like, what?

Melanie Wilson: 27:04

Um, so I, I knew that I was leaving. Um, and I, I specifically said to my, my bosses when I was leaving, like, I want to do an exit interview and I want you to know how this felt and, and how I. But I also was able to honor those feelings of mine because I had had my previous experience and then literally in the moment when this was happening with my friend Amy, I was like, oh wow, like this is directly linking me back to when that happened a year ago and now I understand what trauma is and now I understand that like, I will need to, um, You know, honor this and, and, you know, not, not move on from it, but to help myself through the feelings that I will have around it. Wow.

Mimi Gonzalez: 28:02

So, yeah, no, this is such great discussion and I really hope people, you know, are taking away like things that they can do at work. Cause it's like, even recently I, when I, I left corporate America, because Um, yeah, we didn't have to get into all that, but I left corporate America and, um, and a lot of it I realized came from how death phobic it was. And so now in my consulting work and consulting practice, I'm working with organizations to be more, you know, death aware and just, you know, Really, how can you coach your, you know, employees to be more empathetic and be more supportive with this? And like, I totally move away from the word bereavement and I say integrated loss. Because it's like, yeah, because people think that you, like you said, you go away for two or three days and then, Oh yeah, I'm ready to come back to work. Like, no, like this person is forever changed. And like, yes, they are going to come back to work at some point, but should definitely be longer than a week. Okay. First of all, second of all, it should not matter who you lost for you to take time. Like literally being able to, Oh, immediate, it. You know, your spouse or immediate family member, like, no, I don't care if you lost a childhood friend from 30, 40, 15, 5 years ago, like, at the end of the day, like, you experienced a loss and it's going to affect how you show up as a person, how you do your work, and this person should be able to take some time away without having to uh, You know, share the ins and outs. Like, dude, like someone just lost somebody. Like, it's like, I've really realized how much work is nosy as all hell too. It's like, they're trying to be all up in your business. Like, who did you lose? When did this happen? Like, why does it matter? I I'm grieving, like, let me live. So right. Really kind of giving some language and tools to, uh, workplaces and organizations to, to help navigate that. And like, I like to focus on. in the workplace only because I mean, obviously everyone can benefit from these types of, you know, resources and services. But I feel that young people experiencing loss in the workplace is just complete. It's like, just on a completely different level because it's like when you're early career talent, like you're, Trying to learn how to navigate the workplace. And that alone is already so difficult. And then add in losing people that are important to you. And it's like, definitely from my experience, I've lost so many people at such a young age. I, I don't, I honestly don't know how the hell I survived. Work or corporate America. Keep it real with you. I, I do not know how, because I don't know. I probably just kept my head down and just zoned everything out. And like, I feel like work expects us to be robots to when we're experiencing like real life things, you know, but yeah, man, that's a lot. And,

Melanie Wilson: 31:08

and I agree with like, Feeling like you need to show up with pleasantries and be able to talk to a client or other colleagues, like about something, right. And, and folks not really thinking about how significant it might be to say, like, you know, what does your father do? Or do you have children or something like that? You know, where that's. It's a normal pleasantry that, you know, can make someone feel really awkward, but then they don't feel like they can show up as the authentic piece of them because they just need to get through it. Right. They need to get through the conversation. So if someone lies or they just say, Oh, you know, or like it's, it is hard for specifically at a workplace because you can't walk away the same way that you would if you were just, you know, meeting someone in a public place. Or a friend, you know, where you can lean on them.

Mimi Gonzalez: 32:02

Yeah, absolutely. And there's that whole point of like, I'm not going to lie to you. I've always had an issue with the saying, bring your authentic selves to work because at the end of the day, like, yeah, it's nice. That would be nice, but we don't live in this. I don't know. It's like super fake and ideal. Like no, we cannot bring our authentic self to work because if we do, we'd probably get fired. Like what? And literally bringing in this conversation right now, like Literally, right? Like, I'm grieving. What do you want me to do? Cry on all of our meetings? Like, I need time away so that I can be a more integrated person now, or like, whatever that looks like. But I've always had an issue with the whole bring your authentic self to work. You sure? Because we probably all wouldn't have jobs. I don't know.

Melanie Wilson: 32:54

I mean, I can definitely say that if I tried to do that after Amy's death, I would have yelled at so many customers and probably dropped a lot of drinks on people's heads potentially for some of the crazy things that people asked me. So yeah.

Mimi Gonzalez: 33:11

Yeah. So anyway, that's definitely really great discussion. So, um, And then, so you mentioned with, with your father's passing. So this, did you say that was in 2018? That was, um, 2019. 2019. Wow. So that was like right before. Yes. Wow. Yeah. It was

Melanie Wilson: 33:37

a little over six months

Mimi Gonzalez: 33:38

before. Yeah. Wow. I mean, the reason I think, well, that stands out to me in general, losing, losing a parent. I mean, especially before like it's like outliving your own parent has always been so mind boggling to me because it's like, no way. Like. That's not how it's supposed to go. But like, technically, like, I don't know, that's how our society is or whatever, but it's still really hard to conceptualize that, you know, just like losing a parent and not being able to experience. So many like milestones that you thought that you were going to experience with them there. But then to experience that at the age that you experienced that, and then six months before the whole world shut down, I mean, whoa, would you be able to kind of talk a little bit more about that? Like, I mean, just kind of experiencing that loss, but then going into the pandemic where you have to be kind of isolated, you couldn't even see your A lot of family, regardless. I mean, how, how was that experience? Yeah.

Melanie Wilson: 34:45

I mean, I would say that because, so I was pursuing living abroad and working abroad, um, and then my, my dad died when I was on a trip. Um, I was bringing high school students on a trip abroad. And so I quickly realized that I would want to change my course so that I could be closer to my family. Um, so I moved back to, to New York cause they live in the state as well. And, um, I was with them for a while and I didn't have a job because My job was overseas. Um, but then I, when I went back into, you know, figuring out what I would now do going forward, um, was I decided to move to New York City and then it was maybe a month and a half in that when we started like our lockdown, even though we didn't really have a true lockdown like the rest of the world, but um, but still I, it made it so that, you know, I had been at work for barely a month. Um, and I, you know, then was suddenly working from home and I wasn't really able to make a lot of friends. I did here and there and then I think that that's also a big part of why or it was the only reason that I would have pursued like a virtual um grief group is because I had to um and I I really before that didn't really understand having like internet relationships and and virtual relationships but the folks who are I've been in my um grief group with For three years now, I am super close with some of them. Um, and I have met a few of them in person now because I've traveled to this state or that state and like, And been able to do that. So I would say like, definitely I was able to embrace the virtual piece of it. Um, and, and really like, because, because I, I was driven to be talking to other people who are my peers, who really can understand that. And I, I realized. Early on when being part of, um, a first grief group that disbanded during the pandemic, and then I went to my new one, um, or the one that I, I host, I realized that at the beginning of my experience in grief after my father's death, that I really needed to be with, with folks who understood sudden loss, because I knew a lot of people who knew. Who had people in their life who had been sick for a long time, and I just couldn't relate to that. Um, and then I, so I, I actually like specifically had my virtual group as a sudden loss group. Um, and then since then, because I've had that support, I've been able to hold space. differently for folks who also have experienced the longer anticipatory loss. And I would say definitely have like experienced the anticipatory loss with my grandmother who died a couple of years ago. Um, and she was in hospice and that was like the first time I had experienced hospice. So, Yeah, I, I think the pandemic was, is, it still is, and it's very difficult for, you know, that the lockdown, absolutely very difficult for people with this community building. And I think that, but a lot of different organizations like the Dinner Party, like Reimagine, um, really figured out how to pivot and still make great strides to, you know, Support our grieving community for sure. Even if it wasn't in person.

Mimi Gonzalez: 38:51

Yeah. No, that's so great. And I mean, like, I don't know, actually I know what I was doing. I was, I was a protester. Uh, every day I was like different protests during, um, like the heat of the pandemic in 2020. I was just like, what was I doing with my life and my time at that time? But if I knew that these existed, I would definitely, you know, have been part of these grief groups or known about these organizations. And the simple fact of the matter is I didn't know these things existed. I really didn't. Um, and I really wish more people did. Um, especially like you would think that younger people would know more about these resources, but I think, you know, and I'm just going to flat out say, I mean, you probably, you know, me by now, I'm very blunt and very direct, but you know, what I've noticed and like the death positive space, it is, A lot of older white people in the space, and it's not at all, it's, I don't think it's not that people aren't trying to be inclusive, because I don't think that's the case at all. I feel like they are inclusive. It's just, that's just not who's part of these groups. And so, I think my goal with griefsense, and I also think, you know, similar to you, your goal of definitely like even reaching the queer community is like, just really trying to diversify the narrative and making sure that we are democratizing access to this information that, Hey, this is for everybody. Like we are all grievers or will be if we're not already. And so it's like, what can we do to really build community around these things? Like we do not have to be grieving alone. And I definitely want to drive that home for black and Latino youth. Because like I just said, I didn't know these, you know, spaces existed. Definitely where I live. I don't hear of any of anyone doing this work. Right.

Melanie Wilson: 40:49

Right.

Mimi Gonzalez: 40:49

So,

Melanie Wilson: 40:50

which is so interesting because you know, it, it does affect everyone at some point in their life. And if it's not affecting one singular person, it is affecting the person next to them. And, um, you know, it like, for instance, we have. AA and NA and all of like those really great support groups, um, for folks who need that, right. And that is a general thing that many, I would say, I've never met someone who has asked me like, what, what is that? Right. But you would hope that at some point we would also have that for, for grief and, and how people are feeling about, you know, Losing someone. Yes. Yes. Grievers Anonymous. Do it.

Mimi Gonzalez: 41:37

That might have to be the name of this episode. Yes. I love that. Wow. I love that. Well, you mentioned too re imagine, which is definitely, I want to just, you know, Really shout out the Reimagine team, Brad, everyone there at Reimagine. I feel like what you said, I mean, I wish I knew all of the amazing work that they were doing during the pandemic of hosting different community vigils. I know it's like, Part of the work that they were doing and really bringing, you know, death care workers, light workers, you know, everyone in the death positive space together, um, to hold community. And, um, for everyone tuning in, this is how I met Melanie. Uh, we recently attended one of Reimagine's, uh, community vigils. I think it was in November, um, or like around that time. And it was such an impactful event. And I really wish, I think they said about a thousand people registered for the event. Like that was amazing. Yeah. And like this, the turnout was great. The content was great. Um, I thought the event did such a great job at like bringing so many different walks of life together, but kind of like, Hey, we're here for one thing and one thing only. And that's to grieve, to grieve in community and to, you know, definitely be respectful. Cause like we're in a super high tense. Political climate right now. There's so many things going on in the world. Um, but I felt that no matter what, you know, what someone's political beliefs were, like whatever was going on, that we really just held space for humanity and just like, Hey, this, all of the things going on in the world right now affects us all. And we all have kind of like a role to play in how we support each other, um, in this time. So that's definitely one of the biggest like takeaways I took away from that. Um, and I was crying. Oh my gosh, I should have had a box of tissues. Because like when we did the actual like vigil part, wherever the chat was going crazy and everyone was saying like, You know, you know, my partner got murdered or my dad died or like everyone, like the pets. Oh my gosh. It's like when people talk about the pets, I'm losing it because literally I had just lost my pet like a week before the vigil. So I was like, but like the chat, I mean, yeah, it was so much, but it was so beautiful. And I felt so connected to people that I had no idea ever existed before logging on to that call. Right. Exactly.

Melanie Wilson: 44:10

Yeah. I mean, I, I really thought it was such a powerful,, event too. As you know, we were invited as different co creators of events. So I, I logged in as, um, a co host of one of Reimagine's, uh, programs, which is Death of the Party, um, which I do on my own. You know, they, I use their platform for it. And, um, so they, I really loved that they had us put together poems, um, and we put, they put together a cento poem, um, and we were able to all read it. It, it went really lovely. Um, I've, I've watched it since because of course, like when you're in that type of space and you're like, I need to get my line right. Um, but like watching it collectively is so special. And I'm actually part of, um, a celebrancy program to to hold a certificate in celebrancy, to be able to, um, Host funerals and memorials. So I also look at a lot of events and vigil events like that in the way that, like, how would I do it and what, you know, what were the different factors and why were they chosen and how did it, you know, bring in different people. And I would say that the, you know, For, especially for a virtual event, which I normally don't get very engrossed in virtual events, but this one. Really brought people in and the, the piece of the altar was really special. The music and the, and the different things that, that we were brought to do as. Um, the audience and it really just like, you know, not even just an audience, right? We were participants in it and I really loved that.

Mimi Gonzalez: 46:02

Yeah. Oh, I love that you just brought up the altar because that was one of the things that just the intention that went in to designing such an event and even calling folks co hosts, like this is a very co collaborative. I think that's exactly what we need right now. That's what the world needs right now is to have these co collaborative, co designed events and spaces because everyone has something different to bring to the table based on their experiences. Like, so many people on the call had, you know, Different introductions into grief, right? Different initiations into the grief gang, if you will. And, but it was just so beautiful. Like, there were so many different niches and different ways of loss that were, um, represented. But from the altar, especially, I thought it was so beautiful. From, like, the yellow flowers, which, you know, represents, you know, for the soul. Spirit to live on and the, the copal incense. Like it was just very thoughtful, very intentional, like the sound healing that we did the, and when you said the cento poem, like that's when the waterworks started, I was like, Oh boy, here it goes and it just, It just kept going. Um, and it was, it was so needed. It was such a needed space. And I really want to continue amplifying your work, Reimagine's work, and just really just keep, you know, keep this thing going and really just educate people on the resources that do exist. Um, and to not be afraid to pursue them. You know what I'm saying? Like. Exactly. We are, yeah, like we are conditioned to grieve by ourselves, to, to kind of deal with our traumas alone, but like, if anything, if the pandemic taught us anything, like think about how isolating that was, but like in person, but people really found a way to build community virtually, like how you said. And so I think now we're in a really unique time. time where we could do both, right? Like, yeah, no matter where you are in the world, like we can continue building those, those spaces virtually, but I think just building community to like what you're doing with the death of the party, like that's. Amazing. Um, so I have a couple more questions before, before we wrap up. Um, I definitely would love to know. Um, so you selected to opt into the journal prompt section of griefsense. And I, I get so excited when guests choose to opt in because, you know, journaling is such a huge part of my life. Um, it really just allows for reflection that, and I think something I'm trying to work on myself is like my mental health and things like that is like, and I wonder if it's a trauma response from when I was a child, but like, do you ever, I mean, I don't know if I've ever, I don't know if you relate to this, but it's like when something big happens or something traumatic happens, it's almost my default response to tell somebody else before I've even processed it, right? Yeah. And so like, I just want to do better and journaling has helped me with that. Like, okay, let me process what just happened to me. And then let me get my thoughts together before I go and tell someone else that that goes for my partner, for my parents, my family, my friends, like, I just really want to get better at being more in tune with things that are happening to me. Before like, Telling everyone else, but regardless of whatever I feel like, especially with grief, like journaling has just been life changing. So I get really excited when other people like, yay, I want to tune into the, to the journal section. So, so, um, the, the journal prompt that, that you selected was, uh, to reflect on a time that you experienced unexpected joy amidst your grief. So, yeah,

Melanie Wilson: 50:00

so, so, um, the time that I want to share is, um, so my dad, he wasn't himself a musician. We, he definitely played the air guitar and the air drums and things like that, um, and would like sing us lullabies when we were little and things like that. Um, but he really, um, loved music as if he was a musician himself. Um, I think I definitely, the way that he connected with music and would like sit us down and play a record and be like, do you hear that? Do you hear this? Do you hear this person doing this and this and this? And like, you know, back then I was like, okay, and now I'm like, oh, I want that, you know? Um, so, so the thing is, is that music has been really hard for me post COVID. My, post him dying, like, so I actively, a lot of times will choose music that I normally wouldn't choose because I'm like, I need to get through work, right, like I can't be listening to his music and. You know, when it unexpectedly comes up on a playlist or something like that, I'm like, oh, okay, I guess we're having a moment. Yes, we're doing this. Totally fine. Yeah, literally happened a few days ago. Um, but, uh, so there is a, uh, a band called The Delays who, um, are out of the UK. Um, we, we lived in England when I was little, so we had, like, Loving connection to England and but we heard about the delays. Um, I want to say they might be Maybe, I think they may have just had a release of their first album and it was like their 20th anniversary or something around that. But my dad had found them and they're very unique. Um, the main singer's voice, Greg, is the one. Beautiful high voice that you know, the first album that he played me, he was, I'm like, so that woman is a beautiful singer. And he's like, it's actually a man. And I was like, Oh, okay. Um, so, and they just do all different things with their music. It's, it's amazing. And so. Really, my dad and I, like, every time that a new, one of their new albums came out, you know, over the years, it was like, Oh my God, the delays has a new album. We're so excited. So then about like maybe the past five years before dad's death, we were like, the delays aren't putting out music, like what's going on. And I want to say it was maybe. like 2017 ish, um, they started putting on their Facebook that Greg, the main singer, um, and one of the two main like writers of the, of the lyrics because his brother Aaron is in it, in the, the delays as well, um, Greg had cancer and he, he had, Seeking treatment. And then with the way that insurance and coverage works in the UK, he was at a point in his treatment where The government wouldn't pay for his treatment anymore. So he was seeking a, he was seeking money on like a GoFundMe type page. Um, and I remember like dad and I talking about it and my dad being like, I'm going to give some money to, to his GoFundMe. And, um, and like Greg has like two young daughters. So I think my dad also had, cause I have a sister. Um, like, I think he, you know, felt some way towards. Greg as well. Yeah. Yeah. And like, just, we loved his music so much. So then he, so then, you know, I, I watched on, on Facebook, like Greg was getting treatment and things like that. And then my dad dies and I was like, wow, we're never going to be able to see the delays in concert. Like we're never going to see what, you know, he's not going to know what happens to Greg. And like, I was just, You know, I, I ended up using, asking to have his, uh, their music at his, um, when we buried him and things like that. And like, just a lot of music reminds me of him, but really like the delays is just the epitome of that. And then there's this other, other part of the story where my, my dad's, um, my dad also wouldn't have considered himself an author, but he was an amazing writer and he would write a lot. of letters, um, and so we have a lot of really nice words from him. And I was, we were extremely fortunate that we could get into his computer and didn't need a password at the beginning. So, I found this Google document that has a ton of his writing and a lot of it had been him writing and then he would copy and paste it into an email or a card or something like that. But I did find literally something called a sonnet for Greg. And I was like, I like, and the way that he wrote it, because my dad also referenced all these different things and like he wrote this, it was, it was a sonnet. It was. Rhyming. It was amazing. And I was like, I, I know that this is for the delays, um, singer. So I was like, wow, this is so amazing. And then I want to say it was maybe two years ago now, a little over two years ago now, Aaron Gregson. started posting saying that like Greg was going into hospice and um, and he was posting a lot and I was like, all right, it's now or never that I shared this. I don't know if, yeah, like I thought maybe my dad had shared it potentially when he sent in the GoFund Me, but I didn't know if that was the case. And so I was like, I'm just gonna, I'm just going to send it to Aaron on Instagram. No agenda, no nothing. And I did. And I, and he wrote me back and he was like, this is so beautiful. I can't believe like we've touched your lives. Like, this is such a beautiful thing that your dad. Yeah, it was, it was truly an amazing moment to like receive that back from him. He was like, this is one of the most beautiful things I've ever read. And I was like, if I had written that, I like, if I had written it, he wouldn't have been able to say that. But like, Dad's actually was like so beautiful and had so many references to different things, like daughters and, and things like that. So it was, it was, you know, a really amazing. Thing to have that from from Aaron and he was going to show it to his brother Greg and Greg did die that year. Um, so that must have been two years ago.

Mimi Gonzalez: 57:17

Wow. Yeah. Holy moly. That is. Yeah. Well, clearly you can see that was, that definitely impacted me because wow, I feel like what a gift, what a gift that your father left behind to like his talents and the fact that you're able to have that like that alone is. Amazing. But then being able to kind of have like that full circle moment with Greg. Yeah. Like, oh my, wow. That's so beautiful. I'm so happy that, thank you so much for sharing that. And like, of course. Ugh. Wow. I feel like literally with just that, and even through the work that you're doing, of course you're carrying. on the legacy of your father, but I also feel like you're carrying on the legacy of Greg too, like just the delays and just the awesome work that they did, like, because they were brave enough to put their music out into the world. Look at the amazing experience that you had with your father. It's just a really good bonding and good connection. Full circle moment. I love that. So wholesome. That just made my entire day. Oh my goodness. Wow. Thank you so much for sharing that. That's beautiful. Yeah. Wow. Well, my friend, can you, last question here. I just want you to be able to shameless plug all the way, the amazing work that you're doing. Any upcoming events that you have, where can the people learn about your awesome work, anything that you want to share with the people so that they can get tapped in with you?

Melanie Wilson: 58:54

Yeah, for sure. So, Death of the Party, we had three events. in 2023, not really knowing where we were going with it. And then now in 2024, I've got like different collaborators and people wanting to do different things. So I'm really excited about it. We're having at least an event in May as well, and then we're hoping for at least one in September, if not one also at the end of the year. And we're also doing something called outings as a, um, As a community, um, pun intended for our LGBTQ folks, um, that we go and we, we go to other events that are around, um, death education or grief. Um, we just went to one that was a comedy show about, it was literally called coming out to dead people. And, um, the comedian, Ricky, it was really great. The comedian Ricky did, um, yeah, he talked about his experience of not coming out to his mother before she died. Um, so I have that, that same, um, type, I mean, not the same story, but the same experience. So, um, we did that, you know, I just wanted to bring out, bring the group together and like, be able to experience other people's. Um, events. So for death of the Party, you can find us, um, on, so it's specifically in New York City. Um, we're on Instagram @deathofthepartynyc think Death of the Party is already taken by like a hardcore band, um, , death metal band somewhere. But most other things aren't called Death of the Party. Um, and then I'm also at deathofthepartynyc. org. Um, and then I'm also deathofthepartynyc@gmail.Com. So I would say the, both the Instagram and our website really. I'm furiously updating that as, um, as events come up and you can come to one if it's for you, great. If it's not, there's probably a different one that will come up soon because we haven't, we don't do the same thing each time. We do something creative and some way to get people to be able to speak to each other and be open with each other. Um, but we also have a way that people can distinguish if, you know, they're a little bit more reserved that day. Because maybe they're feeling extra griefy and they don't want to talk about their grief, but they're open to other people's grief. So, yeah, it's, that's the community and we love it. And for people who aren't in, in New York City, um, I would definitely shout out, again, Reimagine and the Dinner Party, because the Dinner Party is all across the U. S. specifically. And, um, there are virtual and in person gatherings in a lot of different places where you can start your own. And I'm a, I train, host the Dinner Party. the dinner party as well. So we've, we've got new groups all the time.

Mimi Gonzalez: 1:02:00

Yeah. Wow. Thank you so much for sharing all of that. Y'all definitely get tapped in with Melanie and the amazing work that she's doing because, oh my goodness. Wow. Absolutely. I'm just so grateful to be in community with you. Seriously. Thank you. You're so cool. Like where have you been in my life? I just like, I really feel like. With grief, you really do meet your chosen family, you know, like you have people in your life that, you know, your family, your friends, but I feel like there's nothing like family, like seriously, like we just understand each other on a whole nother level. So thank you for being part of my chosen family. Um, I'm just so excited to keep collaborating with you and to cheer you on and to see all the amazing work that you'll continue to do. And yeah, just, yeah. Y'all get tapped in like, come on, seriously. Um, so with that. You know, listeners of grief sense, thank you so much for tuning into this episode. Griefsense familia, that wraps up another episode of the grief sense podcast. If this resonated with you, please feel free to share with someone who will appreciate it and tell a friend to tell a friend. Also, I'm a firm believer that feedback is a gift. So, you know, I'm just saying, I won't be mad if you decide to leave a review and a rating of your experience on the podcast so far, also let's help each other find community in grief and let's amplify these stories far and wide. Thank you for tuning in, in solidarity, y con mucho amor. Meh, meh.